There was balance in Classic WoW? I thought thats why everyone played it, because it was broken af.
This is so laughable. People want the vanilla experience. Translation, they want a custom vanilla experience to reflect the state of the game as far as class balance goes. If that is the case, you don't want vanilla, you want a custom version of it.I never played vanilla but personally I feel that if should be as it was then, classes unbalanced, some specs not viable, then that is what you get. If you don't like it then play the current game. There should be no compromise, it should be as it was back in day.
How far down the "Classic/Vanilla" rabbit hole are we talking about going here?Back to the point where rolling a Forsaken meant "Hi welcome to the World of Warcraft, hope you like losing because your idiot self picked the wrong race there hero.Yeah, back in Vanilla Pallys (only the Alliance was worthy) got bonus damage vs undead, and Forsaken ARE undead, so, enjoy losing every PvP fight that has a Paladin on the other side.Hmm, does this mean I get Berserker Stance back in all it's Glory?Ie, plus to damage and plus to damage taken? (only spec/class with that was warriors!), if so, sign me up( Hey idiot, why do you have 9 points in the prot tree?)Ooooh, plus I get cleave damage back, AND thunder clap, AND slam, and overpower vs rogues doing that active dodge thing?When does this launch? Because, sign me up.
I used to play Vanilla, but I'm not one of the core fans and as much as I agree that no changes should be made to the game mechanics and features, I think class balance could be a think to adjust, I wouldn't do dramatic changes, but from the history, we already know what was played and what not, some buffs to make unplayable specs at least viable could be good for the game... from my point of view, I was never playing on highly competitive level on Vanilla, so I didn't care about what others think about spec I play, but it would be definitely a problem for me now...
"You think you do, but you don't"
As a person that started playing in Vanilla i can say for sure that i don't want to see any changes at all to balance for classes or anything for that matter. I want to be able to feel the nostalgia in every aspect of the game, from having to fill my bags with food AND water before every raid and pass it out to the raid to being able to beat a Warrior without getting touched once in a duel on my Frost Mage. If the Warrior can suddenly beat me in a duel its no longer Vanilla and i can tell you right away that i wont be supporting "classic servers" anymore.
"You think you want it but you don't" is a stupid illogical phrase, because "it" is so many different things. If someone wants old quests but doesn't want old class balance does it mean they don't really want old quests? No. If someone wants old-school community but doesn't want mounts taking up bag space, does it mean that he doesn't want an old-school community? No.Everybody liked different things about vanilla and they have every right to want those things back, but not the other things. Most people miss their specific things not vanilla as a whole. But since there can only be one end-result and not a separate server for each player based on his/her personal needs, there WILL have to be some kind of COMPROMISE. As ever. That's not anyone's fault, stupidity, elitism, snowflake mentality or anything. That's just effin' (social) LIFE! There's absolutely no way around that, it's not up to anyone.
Classic should be a spitting image of Vanilla launch till Naxx patch, same release cycle, everything is the same except for game breaking bugs and server crashes.Nothing new, nothing changed.
The thing I'm most worried about in the Vanilla server is what happened to the 2007 snapshot of RuneScape. A &*!@LOAD of people played it, so RuneBlizzard decided to give it its own active development team. As in, making entirely new content for it--almost exclusively endgame and microtransactions because that's what the kids playing RuneScape 3 like. This worked and right now more people play "2007scape" over RS3 (the flagship game) even though it is very much no longer the 2007 edition of RuneScape. I know it feels like Blizzard won't do this. It felt like Jagex wouldn't. It's going to start with quality of life upgrades. It's going to start with the mount journal and the pet journal, "to save bag space". Just you wait and see.
As someone who has been with Runescape "Classic" servers, history is repeating itself.People wanted EVERYTHING as it was, with no changes to be made.Reality was that the game was dying, but updates saved it. It kept it interesting, and now, over 4 years from its release date, it has more active players than the modern version. It is the community who decides every update, taking place in a poll, while a lot of updates passes, a lot also does not. Could something like this be done to Classic, having the community to vote in each poll before an update is released?
Back in Vanilla WoW (raiding) was a simpler life. If it was better? Meeehh... everyone should make up their oen mind. Due to the lack of class-/spec-balancing there were far less class-spec-combinations to fill your 40-man raid and also the choice which class and spec to play was pretty easy. You want to tank? Play Warri. You are a mage? Play Frost.You are a Shaman? Go heal... expect for the one enhancer guy with the ridiculous totem in the melee group.You are a Druid? Play heal and smoke t1-shoulders - are there other specs anyway...?You are a Hunter? Just... please... don't pull any aditional $%^&-stuff form the other end of the room. Pleaseetc. etc.Additional there was a less to no change in this "balance", everyone got used to it and accepted it as a fact. "Do it like that or just don't do it at all." Also you could stick to a spec for years (litteraly I'm afraid) and master it (at least feeling to do that ;) ), you did not have to switch specs to optimize DPS after every little (content-)patch. Making decisions was taken away from players - resulting in a feeling "back than life was easier". Tbh I did not read all the above posts, so please excuse me if I state an opinion that was discused/mentioned before.
I played druid in vanilla. My spec was feral/resto, heavier on the feral. Enough resto to spam HT4 constantly. I farmed for tank gear, solo farmed in some cases. A lot of the resistence for non-warrior tanks was because other players assumed non-warriors were all worse than all warriors at tanking. There were times I'd get to tank, there was even a fight designed for a bear tank (Jindo in ZG). It was more challenging, both to gear and to do. And that's the way it should stay. Blizzard can fix stability and bugs, but when they start rebalancing or introducing QoL, that's not a vanilla server. That's wasting time to reinvent the wheel.
Quality of Life improvements and Balancing is the start of the slippery-slope (Or half way down it, depending on your opinion). Before you know it you'll be somewhere else that is clearly not "Classic".
So far, I've seen:"I'm a 100% ex-'vanilla' player and fan and hate anything past 1.2 but...":"let flying be available at 60!""Tauren Paladins and Dwarf Shaman!""class balance patches!""raid balance patches!""collections tab and heirlooms!"Seriously. I know these people are a vocal minority, but you can't say you want a "vanilla" server and then ask for all the bells and whistles that came as WoW developed. Hopefully once a few of these people play what the old game was actually like, and realise it was the community that made it great (and when they realise the community has changed massively from what it was) they might appreciate the way in which the game developed to better suit the needs of the player.Edit: I don't want to see the vanilla world burn, I hope it's a great success, I just get fed up of people literally looking at the earlier game through rose-tinted lenses.
This whole "some classes aren't viable" crap is from people who don't really understand that balance does not necessarily mean equal DPS for each spec. The whole mentality that certain specs weren't viable stems from the belief -- a rather common one, these days -- that only personal DPS matters.Supposedly "unplayable" specs that were actually useful:Balance Druid - Had Moonkin Aura which buffed the party's DPS.Feral Druid - Had Leader of the Pack which buffed the party's DPS.Retribution Paladin - Had various Seals, which provided healing or mana to the raid. Had Auras, which provided mostly defensive buffs to the group.Shadow Priest - Had Shadow Weaving which buffed the raid's DPS; Had Vampiric Embrace, which healed the party for a percentage of the damage dealt.Enhancement Shaman - Had totem weaving, which buffed the party's DPS; had arguably the highest up-time on Nightfall, which buffed the raid's DPS.Demonology Warlock - Had Demonic Sacrifice, which actually made this the best DPS spec for Warlocks.Arms Warrior - Had Mortal Strike, which actually reduced healing on some bosses; had access to some of the best weapons in the game; only considered "unplayable" because Fury was generally better with good gear.Specs that were genuinely not viable, and why:Feral Druids (Tank) - No Defense on gear made tanking raids near impossible because of the damage taken from crits (two auto attack crits in a row = dead).Beast Mastery Hunter - Terrible pet AI that caused a big loss of DPS (this was a problem for all hunter specs, really); pets were squishy and died too easily.Protection Paladin - Horrible mana issues; no taunt.Elemental Shaman - Mana issues; low DPS; no utility that the other specs didn't already bring.Affliction Warlock - Only not viable in the sense they couldn't use DoTs because of the debuff cap.Dungeons kind of throws that all out of the window, so if you're only doing dungeons, play whatever the hell you want and you'll probably do fine.Out of 27 specs, only 5 of them were really all that bad. Considering the number of specs people consider "unplayable" on retail at the moment, I'd say that's pretty good. The rest being deemed "unplayable" was because people were new to the game and things like theorycrafting and min-maxing weren't as common, and people who played in vanilla heard that sort of stuff all the time and told everyone else about it.
Please no class changes.
So you say if for example druids get a buff to their damage like 10%, then it will ruin the whole experience. Yeah, sure....
LoL guys... Do you read what you write at all? Do you all know what you talkin' about? "WoW" and "Class balance" in one sentence? In a Blizzard game? No matter how much you guys cry to get vanilla classbalanced or kept purely as it was before... If they decide to balance classes, all you guys can keep calm... they can't do it :DAfter 13 years of WoW they still couldn't build up any class balances!Just look at the demonhuntrds. They face their keyboard and win dps in raid, win arena, win everything.MM huntrd: if you use 5 spells then you are already a hardcore huntrdTanks: ImmortalsRogue: lol really need any comment on this class nowadays?MW monk: Catch me if you can!Unfortunately Blizz has some favorite classes which are always in good position at buffrulette... We will never get a real balanced game while Blizz doesn't start following the next formula:- if you have more mobility, you have less defense / dmg / healing- if you have more survivability, you have less dmg / healing- if you have high dmg / healing, you lack of survivability / mobilityClass balance problems solved. But Blizz will never apply it because then all those 5 years old demonhuntrds will keep cryin' in tickets / reports.
Vanilla in terms of class balance was garbage , you can very well say there was no class balance.It took Blizzard devs 3 or 4 expansions to balance Rogues and stop them from killing everything they stunlocked in PvP.Also Rogues did not need utility back then because they were one of the very few dps classes.I miss a few things from vanilla , honestly, and they can be brought to the current expansion and future ones very easy.I miss the importance and badassness you had for having a profession , you had really good items to wear for raids.Now ,the profession ones are replaced by dungeon items easily because they are better.Also , I hate majority of classes with intrerrupts , I mean come on it used to determine the playstyle of a class.If I were a paladin main and I knew they cut my burst and a little bit of my damage for an intrerrupt I'd be pissed.I still dont have an intrerrupt on destruction or demonology , I actually I dont have an intrerrupt of my own as a warlock.