The only issue with a no-tank/no-healer dungeon presents is scaling. How do you make the content challenging? The boss attacks you? Then what? Is it a DPS race to kill it before you die? Do you have to dodge certain abilities? Okay, but then what? Just another Safety Dance? I'd say that's a pretty easy encounter. There's just no way for the dungeon to remain difficult, but doable with 5 DPS that I can see.Regarding an AI form of tank, I really just don't think that would be possible. Tanking is a bit too delicate for WoW's AI to handle.
True, but what about people that don't over-gear the dungeon? Isn't it essentially just one giant DPS race? I would assume so, as otherwise there's no punishment for taking as long as you want, so long as you avoid fire.
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Another fight, since I'm on a roll:Everyone get's supplied with a pvp trinket by an NPC...but not just any pvp trinket. This pvp trinket has a 5 second cool down and a 2 second cast time, and it can only be used on other people. Rather than a fight, this "fight" is a footrace. The entire party needs to get from point A to point B, dodging fires and tornadoes and whatnot. At the same time you'll be racing against 5 NPCs who will be slowing and CCing you (and of course you will be CCing and slowing them). And since the special trinkets only work on other people, it'll take an extreme amount of teamwork to get everyone across.
And how about we throw a special DPS race in for our third boss:A Giant Nesting Doll!It will cast AoE instead of attacking a tank, so it'll be a dps race to down it before it wipes the group. But after you kill it, another smaller doll pops out if it, then another, then another, then another, ad infinitum. Once it wipes the group (assuming you killed at least the first doll) cue a scripted event where Super Awesome Super Paladin Man comes in, finishes off the boss and mass resurrects the group. Loot is based on which doll you got too, with better (more) loot being deeper inside.These are fights that I thought up in an hour. Are they perfect? No. Do they illustrate the point? Yes. I have no doubts that a paid team could come up with much better fights.
You're right, I didn't think too in-depth about it, hell, I really didn't think a whole lot. School work, and all that. I am now on-board with your idea.
It's not ad hominem when I'm pointing out that clearly being a moron, the rest of his argument is very likely fallacious as well. If you're going to use logic, use it right. The main point of ad hominem is that you attack an IRRELEVANT character flaw. Being a moron is quite relevant.And just because you have a bad day with LFD doesn't mean they're all fail. I'll agree that there is quite a large population of fail. But that just proves my point in that if you make friends with smart, good players, then there's less fail in your group. TL:DR : You are the one with the logical fallacy.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....The Grinch Who Stole Logic by shinazueli
The problem isnt the LFD system. Yes the system isnt perfect but what system ever is, the developer has a limited time to create system and then the user has forever to rip it apart. Get rid of the LFD and what have you got? We're all back to square one where we sit around in Org spamming trade. Those without guilds would be in even more of a mess becasue they would not only not have a guild to run with but they'd actually have to make friends to run content. At least with the LFD you can sign up to queue and then bog off some where and do some dailies while you are at it.Blizz created the LFD to help you out. The system takes people looking for groups and puts them together, basically automating the old spamming trade way of life. With or without the system there would still be a shortage of tanks and healers, its just you would have to wait even longer becasue you wouldnt be able to look for groups and do dailes etc at the same time.The problem isnt Blizz, and there is nothing Blizz can do about it. The problem is the community and its attitude, the whole "Give me what I want, When I want it... Don't you know I'm paying £9 odd for this service!" There are only a certain number of Tanks and Healers due to the inherited stresses and crap you get. So there will therefore be a limited number of potential groups and so unless you know a Tank or Healer you will have to wait. Its the way of life. There are four solutions:1. Wait in the queue like everyone else.2. Run with a guild.3. Spam trade.4. Role a Tank or HealerI guess the point I'm trying to make is the issue isn't with Blizz, all they've done is create a system to try to help us. The problem is with us and our attitude.
Kalitas has quite a point in what he is saying. And MsJamie's PuG fear is a sad consequence of that.And also, for shinazueli, while i did understand your posts and reasons behind it, do try to be civil and post with manners if you can. Good posts can become sour if the poster goes to a filthier level of conversation.And before you say anything, i'll quote Kalitas' words:
@Hyperspacerebel,I am really liking this DPS dungeon idea. If you put some imagination in it they could be really fun and heck you could even work it to where the DPS learned something about their class. I'd like to add a few lessons...er suggestions:- "Pulling aggro is BAD": In this scenario you have some fights where if the DPS does pull aggro off the friendly NPCs then the mob comes and annihilates them? (Nothing like a corpse run to get you thinking you did something wrong.) Heck you could even have fun using the raid icons which the friendly NPC applies and if you pull aggro off the wrong one, you're boned. Sorry pal, this isn't some kind-hearted and patient player tank that is going to taunt the mob back. Oh and by the way, these mobs are immune to CC, Feign Death, Fade, Vanish and any other form of "hey I'm not really here". To be kind for starters you could have an actual warning appear (ala Raid Warning) that you are pulling aggro. Also, as a punishment for pulling aggro too often (death sometimes isn't enough) have the reward be lowered for those players, not any of the others (unless they also pulled aggro too much).- "Learn your LOS": In this scenario you have some mobs that are around hard corners (walls, lab doo-hickies, cool stuff, etc.), they are looking in all directions (multiple eyes?) and if they get LOS to a character they immediately move to them and attack them. To make this a proper lesson the NPCs have a lot of health, stuns and other annoyances to make them brutal to deal with. The PCs start in a safe area (no mobs patrol there and can't see it) and a friendly NPC "tank" lures each of the mobs to the safe area for the PCs to DPS. To make is more than just standing around, you can have the friendly NPC move to different areas (moving toward a set destination moving safezone to safezone). Oh and to avoid cheesiness by the players these mobs see through stealth, invisibility and any other cheesy nonsense. If need be they are also not CCable outside of the safezones (perhaps the friendly NPC has a debuff when he taunts them?).- "Down in FRONT": This would be a basic scenario where a mob would have a frontal cone attack that would do a decent amount of damage but be more aggravating because of the mechanics. Different mobs have different debuffs, one for debuffing movement when the goal is to move to get out of AoE damage (capping movement speed of course) and another that debuffs attack/casting speed when the goal is to dps down adds.- "Is that a CC in your pocket?": This scenario would be all about CCing the adds, damage wouldn't even be the goal. Have mobs with a ridiculous amount of health (and a hefty regeneration to boot) and the goal is to STOP them from getting to a certain point. Along the way they walk through areas of heavy AoE damage and sometimes even do an AoE or a cleave themselves. There would have to be a good number of adds to make sure it was a challenge and you wouldn't be able to stop them all but the reward would be based on how many you stopped.In some of the above scenarios there could be areas where the DPS could go to get healed but the healing would add a debuff to the PC to keep them from just running back there constantly. Not all of the scenarios would require a tank NPC so there wouldn't be a reliance on those mechanics.The most important thing, aside form making it fun, would be to make sure there were objectives so people couldn't just run through and faceroll it. I'm actually hoping we get to see some of this stuff implemented! :)-RawEdit: modified one suggestion.