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Lifebloom and the burst - why do I get aggro?
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Post by
Spinkert
First off, if this is in another thread, please link it for me. I've checked the forums and if the info I need is on here, I've missed it somehow and in that case, I apologise for making another thread about it.
I am lvl 73 resto/boom and have always been a healer until dual spec. I haven't used lb much, and this is why. The first time I used it was on a mage who was running me for fun and I was keen to try out a new healing rotation. Major aggro on me when it burst and I assumed it was because mages are obviously not tanks and therefore do not hold aggro like a tank would.
Tried it a couple of other times on other classes, same thing. I quit using it.
Ran Onxyia duo last week with a shammy who told me to use lb on him (and yes, we got her, woot, although he solod her after the whelps killed me). I explained about the aggro I got from the burst and he didn't believe me. The next night we ran BF with him on his dk along with another dk, both as tanks. I have played with them before and I know they are good tanks so they are not the issue. I used lb on them both to show them. When it burst, everything in the room that was on them came at me. They had no problems holding aggro as long as I didn't use lb.
Why? What do I not understand about this heal?
I read about lifebloom ages ago in some rather old threads, and I thought that I understood how the bloom works. Clearly that's not the case and I would be most grateful to either be pointed in the right direction for the information or any advice you could give me.
I wanted lb for so long and was so happy to finally get it, only to be completely shocked at what happens to me when I use it. It doesn't seem to be worth getting pounded in the face. I'd like to prevent that from happening next time I use it.
Post by
115370
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Post by
109094
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Post by
asakawa
healing threat is 0.5 threat per healing done. overheal does not generate threat. the bloom isn't that big.
if you have threat issues then take 3/3 subtlety but you shouldn't need it.
let's say you use a LB on the mage. it ticks for 7 seconds then crit blooms for 5k. so all that bloom did was give you 2.5k threat or 1750 with subtlety. so long as your mage did more than 1750 damage before the bloom you're fine.
the only difference is that healing gives you threat on every mob that is in combat with you so if your mage is nuking a single mob and only holding threat on the others from a body pull your healing will cause threat from all targets. if you find that the main target sticks with the tank or whoever else you're with then that is what's happening.
TLDR = the bloom does not cause any more threat than any other heal you do. LB is a useful spell that you shouldn't be avoiding, certainly not for threat reasons. no healer should ever have to think about threat. if something attacks you you can always blame your tank for being utterly clueless. there is no excuse for losing threat to a healer.
Post by
MegaVolt
TLDR = the bloom does not cause any more threat than any other heal you do. LB is a useful spell that you shouldn't be avoiding, certainly not for threat reasons. no healer should ever have to think about threat. if something attacks you you can always blame your tank for being utterly clueless. there is no excuse for losing threat to a healer.
This. As has been said a lot of times here: If the healer dies it's the tanks fault.
I can only image one possible reason for what you describe: If somehow the bloom was bugged so that it creates threat for the full healing (including overhealing). But as far as I know no such bug exists so there is no difference between LB or any other healing spell (in threat).
Post by
sunwukung
I have to say that the problem isnt LB but the amount of threat the people you run with generate. I've seen LB crit for 20K in the 1st 10 secs of a boss fight and I still didn't pull agro.
Post by
Spinkert
The only way I can see the 'Bloom' part causing agro like you claim is if there is very little threat on the mobs to begin with.
As Im sure your aware, only healing done counts towards your threat, so if your bloom only heals the target for 500 out of a potential 1000, then you still only get 500 worth of healing agro. That agro is then spilt amoungst all mobs your fighting. So 10 mobs would be 50 heals worth of aggro on each.
In Onyxia's case, those freshly spawned whelps would aggro on you the instant you healed anyone (or your healing rose above that of the Shaman)
As for the mage, my only possible explination is that he hadn't hit the mobs when the bloom occured, thus causing you to gain aggro. But it seems unlikely that this would happen with any regularity.
Do you use Omen at all? if you dont get it and watch your threat and see if it spikes at all, or if your counterpart is using an agro dump (or causing very little threat)
I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the first sentence. That could very well be the reason why. I do have Omen and to be honest during the Onyxia fight I don't even remember looking at it. I was watching the shammy's health and hers, watching my mana, and glancing at him from time to time. I should have paid more attention to Omen to see what was happening with threat. I should know better than that /facepalm. I took a few weeks off resto so am rusty, and on my other chars I haven't been doing runs.
After the first time I used it, I was so shocked I didn't use it again for quite a while. I had no way of knowing if it was going to cause aggro so I only cast on myself when I got clearcasting and needed a bit of mana. Luckily I'm not running where lb is vital, but I will be and need to be able to use it with confidence.
Thank you all so much for replying. I really appreciate it. If their threat is the issue that's causing me aggro, it makes me feel better. It appears my issue is timing and paying more attention to threat.
Post by
asakawa
It appears my issue is timing and paying more attention to threat.
well, yes... but...
i say this as a player who has a tank(in ulduar) as well as a druid healer and a DPSer but anyone who is tanking something should know that they can not take damage without causing threat. of course a good player of any class or archetype should have an idea of what's going on with threat at any given point in a fight but as a healer you don't have to give it much thought.
if someone takes damage then it's your job to heal it. if your tank takes damage without causing enough threat to counter the healing they'll receive then they are a bad tank (or at least they messed up the pull and should rethink their approach)
your problem isn't that you weren't watching threat or were timing your heals badly, it's that you were attempting content with people who weren't actual tanks. when adds came in i'm guessing they didn't consider it part of their job to protect their healer (though they really should have done). if this happens in future then ask the DPSer you're with to act more tank like and keep stuff off you, tell them to trust you to keep them up. if this happens when you're with a proper tank, tell them to stop being a terrible tank and if it happens again it's time to leave the group.
keeping mobs of zealous DPSers as a tank
can
be tricky. keeping mobs off healers is easy. any tank that can't do that is a failure.
Post by
Celdhyrean
The tank can and should do a lot, but it's important for the healer to have that awareness too, at least in my opinion. I had a recent HoL run on my warlock with friends and died in the hallway with statues getting alive on both sides after the 2nd boss. Reason : i was behind the group looting the previous pack, the group had advanced and the new adds spawned, my fel armor ticked a small heal on me and i got one shot by the 2 mobs who were right next to me. (i could blame me for being far from the group or the healer for not having topped me off before moving forward, but not really the tank)
A healer can have the same thing happening to him by staying a bit away from the tank and having a hot ticking at the wrong moment. The tank might not be able to get agro immediately on new packs of mobs if they spawn on both sides of the group. Of course there are ways to avoid that, mainly by staying on top of the tank so that anything you have agro on comes to him and gets taunted/agroed fast. But the healer has to be aware of that and what's happening around him, it's not the tank who should simply stay on top of the healer in those cases.
Those situations are rare though and the ones described by the OP are quite clear cut. But as a healer, and especially a druid with lots of hot that can't be canceled as needed, it's a good thing to be aware of such things and what you can do to counter them (delaying heals, placement, shadowmeld if NE, ...)
Post by
227517
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Post by
asakawa
sure, as i said, awareness is good. situational awareness, tactical awareness and awareness of game mechanics are the mark of a good player.
but...
keeping mobs off healers is tanking 101 and if they haven't got that most basic skill mastered then they have no business pulling the next pack when the group isn't at full health.
in the HoL situation the tank shouldn't have initiated the pull if he wasn't sure he could control the mobs. it may not be entirely fair to
blame
the tank but it isn't a difficult situation to deal with for a tank and if he was paying attention you wouldn't have taken a hit. a 500 fel armour tick actually gives 250 threat divided amongst all 4 mobs. ~60 threat is greater than zero but not much greater. the mobs just needed tapping in any way.
edit to add:
Perhaps the mana gained when the Lifebloom goes off is generating threat the same way other "power-ups" do sometimes
now this is a very good thought. the bloom threat is attributed to the druid caster not the target but you're right that resource gains do cause threat. also, the threat is not halved as that from points healed is but it is divided amongst all mobs in combat. a single stack bloom refunds about 350 mana which is subject to subtlety and then divided. it's a very minor addition but it's definitely worth factoring into the discussion.
Post by
pelf
Any power gain generates threat on any mob who has you on its threat table. However, if a tank isn't holding aggro against a gain of 350 mana, then you need a new one.
Post by
asakawa
indeed but if a bloom heals for 3k then that's 1500 threat. 350 as a proportion of 1500 is worth factoring in.
none of that changes the fact that any tank who can't overcome the threat fails but in terms of 'what threat does a lifebloom generate?', it's worth keeping in mind.
Post by
pelf
If it's a problem initially, make sure the HOTs are rolling before combat starts and they won't generate any threat until you have to reapply them.
Post by
Capnboomkin
How I always start a fight:
Rejuv as they pull
Regrowth as they start to take damage
Lifebloom if needed
Post by
Lightrain
Get better tanks.
The only problem I ever have holding off healer aggro is in Hodir's chamber with the elementals that have the aoe bubbles up.
This is literally the only time I ever have aggro problems with healers. Well, other than a dps pulling when I have zero rage and I'm trying to catch up....
Post by
176018
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Post by
227517
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Post by
asakawa
heal-threat is generated when HP is restored.
this
pelf is mistaken.
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