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What do people think of atheists?
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Post by
Laihendi
Well, God is just, pardon the expression, a figment of our imaginations. He's not real, there is nothing more to understand. I feel I'm being really cruel by saying this, but he's like a lie that the world has told to itself so often it became real to people. You know, sort of like world-wide generations-old pathological lying.
Wait, how can you talk with that degree of certainty?
edit: spelling
How can you be so certain that god is real if you admit your god is nothing we understand, we don't know what god is, we have no idea. We don't know what he looks like, or anything.
?
Post by
ASHelmy
Well, God is just, pardon the expression, a figment of our imaginations. He's not real, there is nothing more to understand. I feel I'm being really cruel by saying this, but he's like a lie that the world has told to itself so often it became real to people. You know, sort of like world-wide generations-old pathological lying.
Wait, how can you talk with that degree of certainty?
edit: spelling
How can you be so certain that god is real if you admit your god is nothing we understand, we don't know what god is, we have no idea. We don't know what he looks like, or anything.
?
Because you can know that something exists even if you don't know what it is. I am sure that whoever discovered, say, electricity did not know what if was, but just observed it's effect.
@ Zatchlas, actually, you are mistaken, no one believed in god back then, that's why he was mocked and tortured at first, he was almost alone in his beliefs. And refer to my "he's not insane point".
Post by
Laihendi
But if you admit that you know absolutely nothing about God, how can you even know if he exists or not?
Post by
150866
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Post by
301440
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Post by
184848
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301440
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Post by
ASHelmy
Wow, loads to respond too :D.
But if you admit that you know absolutely nothing about God, how can you even know if he exists or not?
I just said I know nothing about his nature, not him. For example, you can know that a lion is something that bites, but not know anything else ( I suck when it comes to example, sorry) about lions.
@ dant: Ok, neither of us can prove that he was honest or not, moving on. I meant that since he never got any money (even after islam)so It couldn't have been greed. That link provided no real information, It just said what some people think about the Qu'ran without any proof (and I detected a bit of misinterpretation) people can disagree, but remember that with the Qu'ran, a poor, illiterate nomad established a huge empire. There are easier ways to get " eternal life through history". He never wrote it, an angel told it to him, and he told it to someone else, who in turn wrote it down. I meant that it was logical for him to be right. And most of those things are fact, established by historians (who have as much credibility in history as scientists in science), and I think that your are resorting to far fetched scenarios to counter my arguments, to me, that makes your points a bit weak.
@Zatchlas, what's your point?
@ivokk, I didn't observe god's effect, I just know of his existence because the prophet said so. And of course It wouldn't, but if you think that was the case with muhammed, you need to read more about his live (from an impartial source).
Post by
Laihendi
You should know quite a bit about lions. Maybe not as much as an expert on animals, but still a lot. That comparison doesn't make sense at all.
Post by
301440
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Post by
150866
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Post by
ASHelmy
Qu'ran, a poor, illiterate nomad established a huge empire
That's proof poor illiterate nomads can establish empires, not that God exists.
He never wrote it, an angel told it to him, and he told it to someone else, who in turn wrote it down
Can't prove that, but there you go, he wasn't illiterate after all.
money
isn't the only thing people want, there's power.
I meant that it was logical for him to be right.
It's logical for someone to be right when he's observed to be right or when the only logical outcome is for him to be right.
I'm showing it isn't, which ties in with the next point:
I think that your are resorting to far fetched scenarios to counter my arguments, to me, that makes your points a bit weak.
Whether it's far fetched or not is irrelevant, if I can get one exception to any undeniable rule it ceases being undeniable.
If it isn't undeniable, you can't logically derive anything infallible from it. You seem to think the only possible explanation for all that is that a God exists. It isn't.
Plus, you believe in an invisible man in the sky because a nice old man told you so and
my
arguments are far fetched?
Which is proof that the qu'ran is good, and makes sense. Which is one of the reasons I believe in god.
Wait, what? How did you get that he wasn't illiterate from what I said?
He never got anything from his "power", plus, people who seek power just for power are usually dictators, he wasn't.
Can you give me some other plausible explanation that makes sense along with history and the qu'ran? And please, I don't say that god is a man in the sky...
@laihendi: that example was utter failure, sorry. I meant that you could know something exists without knowing everything about it.
Post by
Laihendi
But there's a difference between not knowing everything about something, and knowing nothing about something, and based on what you said earlier it seems that you don't believe you know anything about god, so you just have faith in him.
Post by
184848
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Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ASHelmy
But there's a difference between not knowing everything about something, and knowing nothing about something, and based on what you said earlier it seems that you don't believe you know anything about god, so you just have faith in him.
You're not getting my point. I mean that I don't know anything about what god is, I don't know how he looks like, but I do know somethings about him: that he started the universe, that he some how communicated with us, that he is forgiving and just etc. but I don't know how he acts or why or how he looks like. And ivokk, how could he have been mistaken?
Post by
Laihendi
How do you know these things about him?
Post by
ASHelmy
Wait, what? How did you get that he wasn't illiterate from what I said?
Duh, right, my bad. I meant that meant he didn't miraculously write a book. Much less poetic.
Can you give me some other plausible explanation that makes sense along with history and the qu'ran?
He was just wrong and people believed him. He lied and people believed him. He tried to do a good thing based on misconceptions and people believed him. Pick one.
Happened with Christianity according to you, why should you be selective?
The Bible has a number of parts consistent with history and morally good. So does The DaVinci Code for that matter, and a number of books about Santa Claus. What sets the Qur'an apart?
Aren't coincidences and mundane things far more likely than invisible, immaterial deities? They don't require stretches of common logic or perception of reality. They're harder to believe, but only really to the mind. Complexity is a purely human concept, complex things happen on their own all the time, like evolution.
I don't think Mohammed was malicious by any means... I just think he was mistaken. He doesn't need malicious intents, stop trying to trun him onto a monster.
It's a possibility like any other within human nature. Be ready to be offended in a religious argument.
I am sorry, I don't think I can convince you (any of you); perhaps I am not learned enough about islam and history or am simply not smart enough; Perhaps my debating skills are just bad; or perhaps you are not just open minded enough. I strongly advise you to seek a professional and ask them, it is worth it, trust me in that. It's quite understandable that you don't want to take such a huge commitment from the advice of some teen on the internet,but, a part of me thinks you are just scared, and are making reasons not to take that commitment, I am probably wrong.
Edit: From the Qu'ran and the prophet, laihendi.
Post by
150866
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Laihendi
Have you ever considered the possibility of looking for and finding answers to certain questions without religion?
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