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An article on Varian Wrynn being right
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Post by
HoleofArt
Agreed.
I just hate it when people claim: "Varian Wrynn is right.*
"
He's not right. He tried to kill my favorite character in the entire lore, who also happens to be one of the most morally admirable characters in the lore. Varian is not right.
He's missing a lot of facts, and not listening to some people who know better, and so he's justified as far as his own personal experiences go, but he's still not right, ultimately.
My feelings exactly.
* My god I hate that too.
Post by
188262
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Let me breask this down in easier terms.
Varian thinks he's right about everything he says about the orcs and the horde.
Hitler thought he was right about everything he said about the jews.
You need a better comparison then that?
Also, the person who posted the article about Varian Wrynn being right was an alliance only fanboy. Regardless about convincing people thought his article to be, it was from a one sided point of view only, nothing more.
In a world like warcraft where everything is determined by shards of grey, you say your leaders the only one whos right because you say he is doesn't hold a thread of truth.
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
there is a difference between varian and hitler.
the jews were totally innocent.
where, we have the orcs...
who razed stormwind
tried to destroy the world
tried to destroy all that was holy
betrayed the elements
Killed the Lion of azeroth
the one orc they could trust, killed Varians fatherLet's not forget a few things here.
The Orcs were under the control of the Burning Legion.
The Orcs which tried to destroy Azeroth are 1 generation of Orcs. Many Orcs around now were only children, or babies, maybe not even born yet when the First War kicked off. Should children suffer because of what a generation of Adults did? Because if you think so, I may as well stop writing anything else now.
Hmm, killing the "Lion of Azeroth" - There's this thing called war. People die in wars. What about the numerous others who died, Human, Dwarf, Elf and Orc alike?
About the Elements, the Orcs were tricked. You can read up about it if you want.
Garona is a Half-Orc. It's funny really, because she's half Draenei too. You don't see Varian going all "OMG DRAINEI KEEL CUZ GARONA WAS PART DRAENEI!" Do you?
and they continue aggressive action, and harbor clearly evil creatures in their pact (the forsaken). Mind you, the wrathgate, broken front, and all that nasty alliance V horde stuff has happened within like a few months after varian came back, it would be a logical assessment that atleast the more minor stuff happens quite frequently.Not all Forsaken are evil. The faction is classed as "Lawful Evil" Yes, but they haven't dropped a big bomb of blight in Stormwind yet, have they? It would also be a logical assessment that the aggression between the Horde and Alliance has increased since Varian's return. However, this is just as much to do with Garrosh as it is with Varian.
they have redeeming factors, like, helped save the world, but its frankly ludacris to suggest that varian has no reason to believe that they are a threat. Yes, he is free to think of the Horde as a potential threat. However, isn't an Old God who managed to enslave Titan servants who knew what Yogg-Saron could do, the crazy ass Lich King who wants everyone dead, the incoming reappearance of Deathwing and maybe Azshara just a bit more important than a grudge he holds with the Orcs?
I understand how you take offense to somebody who says a leader who wants to destroy your favorite race is justified.
Just as i take offense to someone suggesting that humans are evil, or stupid and blind, and need more tolerance and forgiveness. i believe they have a good reason to distrust orcs, and most people in their shoes would do the same.Okay, Humans are not evil, stupid or blind as a whole. However, some are.
yes, the guy who wrote the article is a fanboy.He's a dim-witted fanboy at that.
But so are you. And so am i. i like the alliance, you like the horde. as rational beings, sometimes, we try to see the other side of the coin and understand the other's opinions, but more often then not, its only to better argue against them. we use our reasoning as a tool to justify our convictions founded in our emotions, rather then the other way around. This is true, but playing both Alliance and Horde I feel I can see both perspectives, but understand Thrall's desires as more justified.
if you have more arguments, go ahead, shoot, its all fun.Not really, it's like running around in circles. but we have already settled the matter of varian being a complete hotheaded idiot/crazy dude (if he's right/wrong and stuff is up to debate still). im not saying he's right because im saying he's right (circular logic) or saying im right because he says he's right. i say he's justified, due to evidence that orcs are hostile to his people; the people that he is responsible for.Some Orcs are hostile. Just as some Humans are hostile to the Orcs. Make an Orc or Troll, quest in Durotar. At about level 7 you have to go and kill some of the Humans in Tirigarde keep which are part of the Alliance. Make a human, and the first Orcs you will probably see being aggressive to the Alliance is in Redridge, and these Orcs aren't even part of the Horde. Therefore, it's safe to say that the Alliance is more aggressive to Thrall's horde (leaving Garrosh out of the equation) Than Thrall's Horde is to the Alliance.
Post by
Skreeran
Hey TheChamp, have you read my "War is Hell" series?
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=112371
I just think that might give you a bit more insight into my opinion.
To summerize:
Garrosh is wrong.
Varian is less wrong.
A fourth war should be avoided. It would be too costly.
Post by
Adamsm
I understand how you take offense to somebody who says a leader who wants to destroy your favorite race is justified.
Just as i take offense to someone suggesting that humans are evil, or stupid and blind, and need more tolerance and forgiveness. i believe they have a good reason to distrust orcs, and most people in their shoes would do the same.
Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught anyone?
Post by
HiVolt
Hey TheChamp, have you read my "War is Hell" series?
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=112371
I just think that might give you a bit more insight into my opinion.
To summerize:
Garrosh is wrong.
Varian is less wrong.
A fourth war should be avoided. It would be too costly.
While I agree to a point, and I love your series... everyone knows I pretty much welcome the war with open arms.
Post by
Skreeran
Hey TheChamp, have you read my "War is Hell" series?
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=112371
I just think that might give you a bit more insight into my opinion.
To summerize:
Garrosh is wrong.
Varian is less wrong.
A fourth war should be avoided. It would be too costly.
While I agree to a point, and I love your series... everyone knows I pretty much welcome the war with open arms.Thank you... :P
I think the reason everyone wants the "war back in Warcraft" so to speak is because they like action filled epics like the Lord of the Rings, Call of Duty, and all that. Rarely do games and stories like Warcraft deal with the tragedy and loss by
both
sides in a conflict. Often you'll see a character who had felt loss and get revenge, but you rarely see time where the protagonist's foe has also lost things dear to him.
People think: "Well, if the Horde wants war, I'll give them war!" or "The human king threatened my Warchief! The Alliance is gonna pay!" They don't think about the actual effect they would be having on the "real" (in a fictional sense) people. (For example, in my series, Varian died, and while it did save many lives, it also left Anduin an orphan and caused a justified retaliatory response in the people of Stormwind.)
The fact that the War is entirely avoidable and without real cause or need just makes it sadder for me.
Post by
Adamsm
Not to mention that in the world of Azeroth, Horde and Alliance fighting only makes the True enemies: Old God's, Deathwing, the Legion, even Big-breasted Queen Idiot happy.
Post by
Skreeran
Yep. Just look at Cycle of Hatred. Zmodlor (sp?), a lesser demon, managed to spur Theramore and Duroar against eachother for his own gain.
Think of how happy we're making Sargeras.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Yep. Just look at Cycle of Hatred. Zmodlor (sp?), a lesser demon, managed to spur Theramore and Duroar against eachother for his own gain.
Think of how happy we're making Sargeras.
It is always the case that true evils in azeroth get off on seeing the mortal races kill one another, it either weakens there forces when it comes to attacking them, or, like the lich king, strengthens his forces with there corpses.
Thats why evil forces like the old gods, lich king, deathwing and the like, all get a real buzz when you get idiots like Varian and Garrosh who are so easy to push, self motivated rage even.
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
447246
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
The whole Orc's kill them all, was due to the Blood Curse. Once Gul'dan was dead, and the hand of the Legion removed from the Horde, that was why they fell into the lethargy. Champ, as for the Garona thing; Yes Doomhammer knew of the Shadow Council.... seeing as he slaughtered all of them but Gul'dan and Cho'gall. Garona is the child of rape, literally, a forced breeding between an orc and a draenei, that is why Maarad went searching for her all these years. From the time she was a child, she has had spells on her mind turning her into a killing machine. She had no control over herself when Gul'dan and the council sent her after Llane, in fact, the Warlock's enjoyed taunting her about it afterwards. She was beaten by Doomhammer when he found her in Llane's room, and she worked against the spells in her mind, even though they were causing her her intense pain and suffering, and told him the truth; that Blackhand was a puppet, and that the Shadow Council ruled the Horde.
You say that is sign of evil? What about the House of Nobles in Stormwind, who care nothing for the low caste groups, what about the Nobles all over the world, people like Blackmoore; Evil just isn't in the Horde, its in the Alliance as well.
I won't say Varian is evil, just the opposite, he is misguided and led by his hatred. If he could work past it, realize not all Orc's are like the Blood Curse(Garrosh to the contrary), there would be peace between Alliance and Horde.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I never said there would be peace on Azeroth, I said there would be peace between Alliance and Horde, and the forces of Evil(yes capital E) would be up against the same fighting force that fought them at Hyjal: Orc's, Humans and Night Elves working together to stop the Darkness from consuming their world.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I just realized I posted my rebuttal to Champ on my brother's account... :P
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