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Holy Prot
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Post by
Koneira
Right, i 2 v 2 with an arms warrior that is a real life friend of mine and we comunicate via Skype.
At first i was Holy with crit from ret, we did pretty good but i was very squisy when it comes to Melee.
This time i decided to go prot/holy and at this moment i am doing very well. Melee is having a tough time against me, i aint going down easy at all.
All my gear is PvE gear apart from legs and bracers. As full holy i was at 15khp. Not exactly much at all but as prot i am 22k hp. That is pretty hefty and tough for melee to take me down.
I have survived in world PvP against 2 survival hunter pounding me for over 10 minutes. They could not take me down at all, they stood no chance but i couldnt kill them. So my arena partner travelled from SW all the way to north Dragonblight.
My mana is always full thanks to the constant Divine Plea that is always.
This is my spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAdxZxGdAruM0sIuf
Please dont change anything as im happy with this build.
Im just looking for help against Mage which is the onyl class me and my friend is having trouble against. With their silences and stuns in frost. I know i need to time Aura Mastery so i can get 10 secs free heals off.
So any help or adivice would be great,.
Post by
179128
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
The trick to beating mages as a holy paladin is to not cast anything but holy shock and pray there's a Death Knight around. Or bubble hearth.
Post by
Magnerz
Sorry for going against what you asked in your post with the whole don't change my spec thing, but why on eart are you not shaving another 20 seconds off HoJ by picking up JotJ in prot tree?
Anyway back on topic, the build you chose as you said is better against melee/hunters, the downside to this is that you won't fare aswell versus casters, you can't have it both ways unfortunately.
And your gear is your problem, you have very low Stam/resi which is why as a holy pallie you were getting squished to pieces as a holy build. The initial burst people have can be devastating if you're running around in almost full pve gear.
As for how to beat mages, since you wanna stick with a prot/holy build, use AS silence to get off a fast heal or try fake casting a heal, that is start casting then stop so they "waste" their CS, it'll still silence you for 4 secs but you wont be locked outta the holy tree for a full 8 secs whilst they clean up.
also if you take your points in JotJ, mages will have to blink it every time or risk taking a pounding from your warrior buddy (20 for HoJ) meaning he wont have such an easy time escaping the warrior's charge like effects.
Oh and you may have already considered it but the ret/holy hybrid (holy up to holy shock and rest in ret tree for CC etc.) fare's better against casters than the build you are using (but not as well vs melee)
Post by
Koneira
I was thinking about the extra 20 secs off my stun, should i take two points out of the intellect increase or not?
Well do remember its not just a mage that is pounding on me. There is also his team mate who may probably also interrupt my heals. Or they both attack my partner while silencing me or CCing me.
Together a mage stands no chance, what i meant to ask is what do i do when im on my own. Their shields stop me doing any damage what so ever. And even if i do they usually have the Glyph of evocation thus making me fight all again. If i dont mess up i can easily stay alive with LoS hiding and carefull planning on of my heals and CDs. But killing them is a problem.
1 v 1 i can pretty much out last nearly ever class. Caster who are supposed to be my downfall also have alot of trouble taking me down. Priests and their mana burn seems almost useless with a constant Divine plea up. Warlocks cant seem to out dps my healing even when fearing, seducing and silencing capabilities
This is my paladin at this moment.
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zenedar&n=Koneira
Post by
Koneira
The trick to beating mages as a holy paladin is to not cast anything but holy shock and pray there's a Death Knight around. Or bubble hearth.
You reeally didnt read my post did you?
I dont have Holy shock.
Post by
svirve
I'm all out against prot healing builds since it doesnt work as soon as you get put up against a decent team.
And you're pretty much saying to your partner "go F yourself im flying solo".
With that said...
Against mages you're a clear underdog (no matter what healing spec). What
you
have at your disposal though:
AS Silence, silence the mage and then throw a HL.
20 second CD on HoJ (i mean comon if you're serious you should have JotJ) stun the mage and heal if he blinks he most probably wont be fast enough to be able to interrupt your heal anyways. And if he does 9/10 times he'll be skilled enough to be a clear victor.
LoS is your best friend.
Fake healing will make them waste their imp. counterspell, 3sec silence vs 9 sec silence.
Kiting, most mages cant really do much if you keep running out of range. Also gives you an opportunity to heal.
Post by
Squishalot
svirve, I think his warrior was getting cc'd and he was getting beat up on...
I agree with all the calls for JotJ and 20 sec stuns, but that doesn't go with what the Koneira is asking for and trying to be.
I'm assuming that you're more concerned with
Not getting killed as quickly, using damage reduction
Having freedom to cast your heals, rather than the size of your heals.
Primarily acting as a healer, rather than damage dealer, but needing to be able to 'finish off' a battle.
With 12% crits, you're not going to do very much healing, Illumination isn't going to proc very often. You're sacrificing a lot of healing for a 3 second Silence and a bit of extra spellpower, basically, since Redoubt isn't really that reliable.
If you want to keep your current build moreorless intact, consider taking points out of Illumination and Divine Intellect, one point out of Redoubt or something, and spec'ing into Ret to get Vindication.
Use your Judgements to reduce their attributes - again, your crits aren't worth it to warrant spending 5 points into Illumination, so you can free up those points for other uses. Alternatively - have you considered Pursuit of Justice to help with kiting?
Alternatively, why not spec up the Holy tree a bit more and end up with
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxIdxb0sVzbZxGzArdMhsc
You get your extra 11% crits on your Holy Light/Holy Shock spells, you actually *get* Holy Shock, and when you become uninterruptible, you can guarantee your crits. You get increased damage by 10% when you actually decide to attack.
You lose Avenger's Shield and your 3% damage reduc from Shield of the Templar, but you keep all the rest of the important damage reductions from the Prot tree - Ardent Defender, Imp Righteous Fury, BoS, and also some benefit from Blessed Life.
P.S. Yes, I know svirve will hate both of these. But it's more in keeping with the priorities of the OP, other than the build change.
Post by
svirve
The OP didn't want to change his/her build since he/she was fine with it. He/she was wondering if he/she should be taking points out of something to fill out JotJ. He/she was also asking for advice on how to deal with mages. Which i to my best ability provided while trying to grasp the fact that he/she is in a prot healing build. (Nothing personal i just dont get people playing these kinds of builds.)
No i dont hate your build, I hate war and wife beaters. Though i think your build is not viable and using it would be moronic.
P.S. Lots of unisex in here oO
Edit: The point of the OPs build is having Guarded by the Light, thus a Perma DP. And by that preventing a possible oom.
Post by
Magnerz
"Together a mage stands no chance, what i meant to ask is what do i do when im on my own. Their shields stop me doing any damage what so ever. And even if i do they usually have the Glyph of evocation thus making me fight all again. If i dont mess up i can easily stay alive with LoS hiding and carefull planning on of my heals and CDs. But killing them is a problem."
You have chosen to play a very, very defensive healer class, you attacking options are limited to:
Judge, AS, white hits, consecration and a 40 second (20 if you specced right) stun. How you expect to be able to kill any non melee class is completely beyond me, you wont be able to kill a mage solo unless that mage is a very bad mage, simple as. You can do things to outlast them but you lack holy shock, crit talents, PoJ, Vindication, 2 sec judge CD reduce, AoW for imp judge dmg etc etc (all those listed are availible to a holy/ret hybrid)
You are asking for your current, super defensive, anti-melee build for a way to go offensive on a caster. Not only are they your greateset weakness, they are hard to beat 1 on 1 with a 'proper' (i.e.; Holy/ret or Holy) pvp healing build.
You cannot expect to be good at everything, it really is that simple...
- you want to outlast any melee class; then stay in your current build
- you want to have the most powerful/best heals you can; go holy
- you want to get the most out of pvp/arena with your pallie; go holy ret
Sorry to sound like a downer, and it does have something to do with playstyle ofc but simple as: this build won't cut it, its too focued on outliving 1 type of opponent...
Post by
Squishalot
svirve - fair point. Wasn't criticising your advice, was just trying to justify why he/she was going holy/prot, rather than pure holy.
No i dont hate your build, I hate war and wife beaters. Though i think your build is not viable and using it would be moronic.
Yep, as you pointed out in the other thread. Fully agree, and I think I forgot to disclaim my comment by saying that I recognise that he/she didn't want to change his/her build, but that it's suboptimal in some aspects, because it's not doing enough. What's the point of 4 talents in dodge, when you're not picking up def rating gear? You're neither here nor there. Spec'ing into Ret to get Vindication at the expense of intellect (which isn't as required, since DP will be up constantly) seemed to me to be a decent answer to part of the problem of not being able to actually kill anything as a prot/healer.
I'm not convinced about the merits of a prot/healer trying to heal through DP without crits. OOM, the OP may not be, but the partner's not going to get healed much in the process. The OP's primary purpose of being in the prot tree was to become less squishy (yes, I've heard all the jokes about being a Squishy tank), not to stop being out of mana.
Edit: Besides, a mage who notices the perma DP only needs to kite/stun/frost nova him for 15 seconds, and then they've got respite. DP only reprocs on melee hits, right?
Post by
Koneira
The build i am using at this moment was a quick sketch, i did it fast.
After reading your posts i made a few modifications.
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/paladin/talents.html?tal=503521003000000000000000005032213522310200132331232000000000000000000000000000
I put points in imp concentration Aura for a lower silence duration and also points out of Dodge and Redoubt, i got points in them to progress further and i also got JotJ. With one point remaining.
I know i wouldnt be able to take a mage on myself now, maybe if they didnt have glyph of evocation as they wont have any means to regenerate HP if im constantly on them.
And with my partner i can keep my friend up quite fine on most occasions unless i screw up big time or the other teams keeps me CCed and silenced all the time.
I see most of you dont seem to like this spec that im using, all i gotta say have you tried it?
As my friends say i am a self repairing fortress. Yesterday i spent 20 mins dueling against a DK which had pretty good gear. And even though he used all his stuns and interrupts well i could still survive so yes i can survive against melee with ease. And hopefully with points in JotJ i can survive more so against casters which i can already.
As Squishalot said, Divine plea is pretty much important in my build, it stops me from going OOM which is rarely, even with a priest in the vicinity i can stop him from mana draining me with stuns and my silence. Yes its only for melee, thats why i keep my hand of freedom for emergencies such as frost nova or roots.
I wont change my build by taking out Avengers sheild and its silencing talent because it helps me down healers with my buddy. He takes them to low life, i silence them stopping them healing once thats over i stun them thus allowing my friend if he has enough dps ( which he should have ) to finish him/her.
And i can survive more then just one person, depnding on the class.
So thats another reason why i choose this spec.
Post by
svirve
As my friends say i am a self repairing fortress. Yesterday i spent 20 mins dueling against a DK which had pretty good gear. And even though he used all his stuns and interrupts well i could still survive so yes i can survive against melee with ease. And hopefully with points in JotJ i can survive more so against casters which i can already.
That's my problem with these builds. YOU are a self repairing fortress. But what about your teammate?
He gets left in the mote outside the fortress just waiting for a crock to come devour him.
I've been able to defend ST in AB for 7 minutes (no exaggeration involved) on my own against 1 DK & 1 feral druid. With a 51/20/0 build. And i can still keep my partner alive no matter what.
If you forget/miss/dont remove DP and your partner is under a MS effect your 10k Holy light will be healing for 2500 instead.
Which is about 1 second (counting average DPS) of a decently geared rogue.
But i wont argue with builds here that usually just ends badly.
I'd have to say your build looks alot better now.
Though if i were you i'd take one more point out of redoubt and put the two points you then have into Blessed Hands.
Increasing the effectiveness by your HoSac by an additional 10% does alot since your build relies on
your
ability to take damage.
Post by
179128
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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