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Seal of Blood
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Post by
Inekadam
Hey there.
i dont play a pally (im shaman healer) last night i was healing UP HC with a ret pally in grp.he kept taking 10k damage every pull and i finally said "man,seems ur pullin aggro" and he said "no,i use seal of blood" and linked it to me.i dont know what other healers think but for me its hard to heal 10k damage on a dps while the tank is getting beaten on.especially on bosses.he argued that ret dps is completely dependant on sob and if he didnt use it he would do low dps.is it really true?
Post by
Magnerz
Whilst its really true that ret dps pretty much does relly on SoB, the backlash damage from it should never reach an uncomfortable level for a healer.
Consider the fact that he will be using
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20271
which scales with AP, which will in turn make you job of group healing easier and should actually account for most if not all of the backlash damage for SoB.
Also 10K damage every pull seems to me like an insane amount of damage returned, sounds like he was pulling aggro, even if its just one swing from a mob, by going all out off the bat, likely with Divine Storm. Just remind him that he's going to be doing no DPS if he's dead and if you have to choose between healing the tank an healing him, tank will win 99% of the time.
Another thing to consider wold be asking him to Sacred sheild himself, as this can be done before each pull, or ask him to help you by self healing himself with insta-flash of light procs.
Whatever you don't ask him to stop using SoB tho' as it really is a big chunk of damage lost...
Post by
Quest
There is almost no excuse for not being able to heal at least two people well in any group. 10K damage is literaly
one
heal.
Post by
Persen
If you're a shaman healer, and complain about a little group damage, you're obviously not playing the right class. You have so many tools for dealing with this!
Post by
159871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
114144
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PugnaciousOne
The paladin was most likely pulling aggro. This is still no excuse for not helping you out though. Any self respecting ret pally will provide a good bit of healing themself. When i'm in a group, if i pull aggro momentarily, i either bubble if it's a ton of threat, or use hand of salvation to drop my threat below the tank's. Then if i'm taking damage, either from my seal of blood or from AoE, i'll toss myself flashes of light and the residual healing from judgement of light more than covers a 10k hp loss. There's no excuse for not helping to heal yourself as a ret pally. The skills are there, and if you're not using them to help ease the healer's time, then what good are they?
Post by
Squishalot
It sounds like it was just a pug, but if it does happen again, check the stats on Recount - you should be able to look at his 'Damage Taken' screen and see where the damage was coming from. See if it's really all coming from Seal of Blood - if not, point it out to him and kick him into line.
It's funny, last night, I actually had to tell the (relatively inexperienced) healer to focus on the (relatively inexperienced) tank and *not* to worry about me and that I'd heal myself through SoM =P
Edit: Is it just me, or is it that Horde healers have more issues with SoM and SoB than Alliance healers do at 80? Is this because they're less likely to group with a ret pally during early-day instances and just not used to having to heal for it?
Post by
Rydiak
10k damage backlash through Seal of Blood is approximately 72k damage output. If he is putting that much damage out in a single trash pull, he has to be doing over 7000 dps. I am with everyone who says he was pulling aggro. He probably had Righteous Fury on. Seal of Blood is completely usable on fights like Loatheb, through self healing abilities like JoL and Art of War casting Flash of Light when the debuff is down. Keeping Sacred Shield on will completely negate any backlash damage anyways.
Post by
Magnerz
Whilst it is mega unlikely... is 72K in a matter of seconds even possible, theoritically speaking here ofc. Say in the time it takes to hit CS, judge and DS.
Assume a flask, Wings, 10% AP buff (from blood DK/MM Hunt/Enha Shama), GotW, Shammy Str totem,Sv hunter EW debuff, kings and BoM/BS, Bloodlust (for more normal swings+a haste pot?)(+any other damage increasing effects - attainable through raid/party memebers as opposed to boss/trash mechanics) and all hits connecting and being crits. All this in one go is nigh-on impossibe i know but theorectially at least it could happen. Where would the damge sit at approximately on something like this?
Post by
Squishalot
The volume of buffs you're suggesting wouldn't actually be possible in running this HoS - a 5 man instance, you're asking for a shaman, a survival hunter, two pallies, a blood DK, a druid... and we're out of space in the party already. Blood DK can be swapped for an Enhancement shammy, but that would mean one of the pallies would need to be holy (blessing kings), plus the ret pally with improved BoM, and you'd need a feral druid tank.
So, enhancement shaman, survival hunter, holy pally healer, ret pally, feral tank. Nice burst damage - trash mobs would fall before you - but you're not going to go very far with that combination, I think...
Anyway, even then, I seriously doubt you could cause that much damage. Remember, SoB only does 10% of the SoB damage to you. So assuming 60/40 seal/judgement, you'd need to do 33000 in Seal damage, and 22000 in Judgement damage to do 9900 to yourself.
If we're talking a single trash pull, you'd need to get 11k crits on your two Judgements. On 2 Crusader Strikes, and 2 Divine Storms, assuming an 11 second battle) and 4 white hits, you can hit up to 14 times, meaning each seal proc would need to hit for 2400 damage each, and the mobs would need to die evenly enough for your final Divine Storm to hit 4 targets. (Does SoB do DoT from Righteous Vengeance procs?)
And it's worth noting - if you're doing this much damage with SoB only, add in your actual white/holy damage, and there's no way the tank would keep up regardless.
Post by
Achloryn
there's no healer class that doesn't have an ability that can counter for seal of the martyr/seal of blood.... shaman's have chain heal, druids have instant cast HoTs, paladins have light's beacon, and priests have circle of healing or, if it REALLY gets hairy, they can holy nova. I don't mean to sound attacking to the OP, but if you're having trouble healing two people, then maybe you should look at your healing abilities..
With all that having been said... if a ret pally in your group is dropping 10k health per pull then he's most definitely pulling aggro.... there's no two ways about it. SoB/SotM should only be ticking off at most a few hundred per hit, as it's 10% of the damage they deal out on melee swings.
Post by
Magnerz
Wel as you said tis possible to get that grp set up ;P But i take your point that its very unlikely.
Post by
Quest
Even instant cast hots have a >1.0 sec 'cast time'
Post by
142785
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PugnaciousOne
Some mobs do aoe attacks, and whilrwinds. don't forget that...but that's not really the point.
Post by
129299
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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