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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Legalizing marijuana?
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Post by
Monday
You can't get addicted to pot dear
Yes you can.
Post by
Orranis
You can't get addicted to pot dear
Yes you can.
You can get addicted to pot the same way as you can get addicted to chocolate. Or bacon (BACON!).
On the topic of potentially harmful things I would rate that I'm much more likely addicted to and harmed by WoW then pot.
Post by
Monday
I have yet to see a bacon rehabilitation center. Even if I would need one.
Post by
Orranis
I have yet to see a bacon rehabilitation center. Even if I would need one.
Really? That's a problem, considering we live in a country with some of the highest obesity rates worldwide.
Yes, Funden, there are plenty of rehabs for eating disorders.
Post by
Squishalot
Debatable, I've not seen conclusive enough evidence to convince me marijuana can cause psychosis.
By definition then, your original statement is wrong. As you say, it's debatable.
I doubt this. The people who would be willing to go to work high are probably the same people that currently go to work drunk or recently got fired for going to work drunk, I don't think anything would change.
That's not quite my point. I'd be willing to argue that 'hangover' effects of marijuana are more disruptive to working than drinking hangovers. You can tell when someone's been drinking out the night before because they've got a massive headache, but they're still capable of performing at their normal level. I understand that marijuana hangovers still impair cognitive function, however.
You can't get addicted to pot dear, you'd know this if you associated with people who smoke it or smoke it yourself.
Quoted from the page linked by the marijuana supporter on the previous thread page:
WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS (after stopping heavy use)
* mild to moderate, non-life-threatening withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users.
* Withdrawal symptoms normally last 2-4 days, up to six weeks with long term use. Severity of symptoms is related to frequency and duration of use and individual sensitivity.
* anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure)
* headaches, general unease/discomfort
* difficulty sleeping
* desire to smoke cannabis
* slight loss of appetite
* finding non-stoned life a bit dull, increased boredom
* fatigue, lethargy
* slow thinking, talking
* stoned-like abstract thinking, impatience with or annoyance at linear thinking
It may not be addiction in the heroin sort of sense, but there are still significant side affects to prolonged use that may/will require support services to deal with. Gambling doesn't have a physically addictive quality to it, but it's clear that there are some people who would qualify as being addicted. The same applies to marijuana.
Unless overnight drug crime increases for every drug crime to the exact level it was before pot was legalised in our hypothetical scenario, it would certainly decrease. It's true by definition.
Key word was 'significantly'. Marijuana is available enough that people don't need to rob convenience stores to pay for it. The serious drug crimes aren't for pot, they're for cocaine and heroin.
No, but it means the money goes to the government instead of possibly shady people.
That doesn't help the economy, so your point is moot.
Addiction again? No.
It's not addiction. This is family members sick of their partner being stoned all day long and walking out.
Again, the people like that will have already done it with alcohol or acquired drugs through other means.
Baseless assumption. Alcohol is a depressant. Marijuana is a psychedelic. They meet two different needs.
I still disagree.
That, by definition, means it's debatable. Thank you for proving my point!
You can't get addicted to pot dear
Yes you can.
You can get addicted to pot the same way as you can get addicted to chocolate. Or bacon (BACON!).
On the topic of potentially harmful things I would rate that I'm much more likely addicted to and harmed by WoW then pot.
Just because you don't live in China doesn't mean that WoW rehabilitation centres don't exist.
Post by
Monday
I have yet to see a bacon rehabilitation center. Even if I would need one.
Really? That's a problem, considering we live in a country with some of the highest obesity rates worldwide.
Yes, Funden, there are plenty of rehabs for eating disorders.
I was kidding about my need for one ;)
Also, iirc, there are more marijuana rehabilitation centers than eating rehabilitation centers.
Post by
Orranis
You can't get addicted to pot dear
Yes you can.
You can get addicted to pot the same way as you can get addicted to chocolate. Or bacon (BACON!).
On the topic of potentially harmful things I would rate that I'm much more likely addicted to and harmed by WoW then pot.
Just because you don't live in China doesn't mean that WoW rehabilitation centres don't exist.
What's your point? I used WoW as an example because it is something that can have disturbingly clear harmful effects and addiction and so on, and it's something he plays.
Post by
Squishalot
Ah, I thought you were trivialising the existence of marijuana addiction.
Post by
Orranis
I have yet to see a bacon rehabilitation center. Even if I would need one.
Really? That's a problem, considering we live in a country with some of the highest obesity rates worldwide.
Yes, Funden, there are plenty of rehabs for eating disorders.
I was kidding about my need for one ;)
Also, iirc, there are more marijuana rehabilitation centers than eating rehabilitation centers.
While I don't see many 'Pot Rehab centers' (too lazy too type out everything), it's more commonly 'Drug rehab centers,' and you kind of pulled that out your ass (not that I doubt it's not true), considering the amount of people who are severely negatively affected by pot and the amount of people who are severely negatively affected by weight problems (both overweight and underweight) I think that shows something's not right.
Post by
Monday
and you kind of pulled that out your ass
You're assuming I've done zip research and walk around with my eyes shut.
While I don't see many 'Pot Rehab centers' (too lazy too type out everything), it's more commonly 'Drug rehab centers,'
This is true.
considering the amount of people who are severely negatively affected by pot and the amount of people who are severely negatively affected by weight problems (both overweight and underweight) I think that shows something's not right.
Most people who are very underweight/anorexic have a mental disease making them so. Those who are overweight can generally help themselves, provided they have the willpower to.
Post by
Orranis
and you kind of pulled that out your ass
You're assuming I've done zip research and walk around with my eyes shut.
Wait, you walk around? Yeah, still, I'm find assuming it to be true but it seems like one of those not-so-obvious things you might want to source.
While I don't see many 'Pot Rehab centers' (too lazy too type out everything), it's more commonly 'Drug rehab centers,'
This is true.
considering the amount of people who are severely negatively affected by pot and the amount of people who are severely negatively affected by weight problems (both overweight and underweight) I think that shows something's not right.
Most people who are very underweight/anorexic have a mental disease making them so. Those who are overweight can generally help themselves, provided they have the willpower to.
So can anybody who's got drugs destroying their life, if you think about it. Now I have a bad feeling this is going to sink into freewill vs. determinism, but I believe that anybody who doesn't have the willpower to stop them from destroying themselves could be considered mentally ill. I guess it depends on your definition.
Post by
Monday
/shrug.
I don't have any sort of real medical training or education, so can't say anything on drugs/food beyond the fact that marijuana can become an addiction (I wasn't referring to a physical/chemical addiction), but so can other things.
I'll let other people debate on that.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Realistically though, a mental addiction is just a physical addition of a more complicated kind.
Gambling with $100, as an example, provides you with an adrenaline rush as you take risks. When you get that rush, your body physiology counters it and brings your 'high' back down. So the next time you gamble, it'll act quicker, and quicker, until you get to the point where betting $100 doesn't give you that rush. So you gamble bigger amounts. This is why thrill seekers are often seen as being addicted to the extreme sports, because their bodies stop them from being excited by things that us lesser souls would be thrilled by.
So, armed with that bit of psycho/physiological knowledge, will you still argue that it's just a case of willpower, when there are actual physical changes going on?
Post by
Monday
Wait, were you talking to me or Orranis?
Post by
Orranis
Yeah, I was also confused. I don't actually think it's a willpower thing...
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I disagree. I do fine at uni the day after a night of smoking, however if I'm hungover I can't go to lectures (too loud) or practicals (too bright).
You've inadvertently proven my point. You have successfully demonstrated an example of someone who would attend work (or uni) after smoking, when you wouldn't do so after drinking (in fact, you might avoid drinking if you know you need to go to work the next day, so you'll smoke to get your kicks instead). Thank you.
Some of those points seem odd to me. Calling "Slight loss of appetite" a Marijuana withdrawal symptom seems like calling "Bacteria growth" an Antibiotic withdrawal symptom. Marijuana is used to treat low appetite and trouble sleeping.
Strawman, considering that everything else in that list that you don't have an issue with still applies.
Marijuana is the most commonly used illegal drug in the US, that number of people suddenly being removed from the category "criminals" is certainly going to be significant. Notice how I said drug crime and not drug-related crime? That means I'm talking about people being arrested for possession/distribution/growing and not "Some guy got mugged so somebody could buy crack".
I was referring to drug-related crime. Drug crime, in and of itself, doesn't affect the economy, and is thus an irrelevant point in your original argument.
Actually, 2 out of your 4 points about helping the economy do absolutely nothing at all.
Please explain how it's a baseless assumption that people with addictive personalities and self-destructive tendencies are likely to find a way to do it.
It's a baseless assumption because there will be people who drink and don't smoke (e.g. donnymurph), and people who are ok smoking in circumstances when they wouldn't drink (e.g. you). They're two different activities. Same reason why not all cigarette smokers are alcoholics.
Post by
Squishalot
Wait, were you talking to me or Orranis?
Yeah, I was also confused. I don't actually think it's a willpower thing...
Talking to both of you, but mainly Orranis. Your point on willpower and mental illness suggested that you think it's a willpower thing to get over addiction. It's not necessarily.
Yes because I base my argument on experience. I know addiction, I know withdrawal, I have not experienced either from marijuana in 3 years of smoking.
Denial is the first stage...
No, really. If you're still smoking, by definition, you won't have withdrawal problems. Either that, or you're not smoking enough to have withdrawal problems, just like I'm not addicted nor withdrawn from drinking from the once/twice a month cases I'm obliged to have a glass at dinner events.
Post by
Monday
So can anybody who's got drugs destroying their life, if you think about it. Now I have a bad feeling this is going to sink into freewill vs. determinism, but I believe that anybody who doesn't have the willpower to stop them from destroying themselves could be considered mentally ill. I guess it depends on your definition.
Missed this.
When I say mentally ill, I mean has a physical condition with the brain (anorexia is shown to be connected to the brain and your genetics).
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