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Rolling on Shards - Prototype System

Post by chizhik

Give me math if you're gonna make claims.

JC patterns sold by Tiffany Cartier :

7 epic gear patterns, 6 tokens each
8 meta gem cuts, 5 tokens each
6 blue gear patterns, 4 tokens each
23 regular gem cuts, 3 tokens each
18 JC-only gem cuts, 2 tokens each
Dragons Eye's - 4 required for each piece of epic gear, 1 token each

that's 179 tokens if you assume only two JC-only cuts and no Dragon's Eyes. 1 daily quest grants one token. Even if my math is off, it's about 6 months. Damaged Necklaces can be exchanged for additional tokens. They are world drops and sell for 350 - 500g each. If you do the conversion, the cost of 1 normal gem cut is about 1000g. Dream shards are selling for 10g each, so 1200g buys all vendor formulae for enchanters.

Post by danroe

To be clear here: you've never benefited from someone else's profession? Never had a JC cut a gem? Never had a BS make a belt buckle? Never had a LW or Tailor make a leg enchant? Never had a tailor craft you a bag? Never had an alchemist make you a potion/elixir/flask? Really? Again, for clarity: really?

They also charge for it, you know?

And, as you guys say:

Wanting to level a profession: Greedy
Willing to profit from my profession: Greedy
Not giving you free money: Greedy
You don't wana gimme shard = I won't let you have shard

And, as stated, i wana hear other enchanter's opinions. Because non-enchanter always say the same

Gimme shard, i will put it in AH so you can buy it later
You chante me, i gove you mats, you don't get anything maybe a 3g tip.

Oh and,
Give me math if you're gonna make claims.
JC patterns sold by Tiffany Cartier :

7 epic gear patterns, 6 tokens each
8 meta gem cuts, 5 tokens each
6 blue gear patterns, 4 tokens each
23 regular gem cuts, 3 tokens each
18 JC-only gem cuts, 2 tokens each
Dragons Eye's - 4 required for each piece of epic gear, 1 token each

that's 179 tokens if you assume only two JC-only cuts and no Dragon's Eyes. 1 daily quest grants one token. Even if my math is off, it's about 6 months. Damaged Necklaces can be exchanged for additional tokens. They are world drops and sell for 350 - 500g each. If you do the conversion, the cost of 1 normal gem cut is about 1000g. Dream shards are selling for 10g each, so 1200g buys all vendor formulae for enchanters.

You can do this all ON YOUR OWN. you don't need a group

Post by Haxzor

HOLY CRAPSTICKS BATMAN, gear only drops when your in a group!

get over yourself, you got lucky compared to JCing

Post by MikadoGG

They also charge for it, you know?

And, as stated, i wana hear other enchanter's opinions. Because non-enchanter always say the same

You can do this all ON YOUR OWN. you don't need a group

Holy cow. /facepalm

Post by 232266

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by chizhik

You can do this all ON YOUR OWN. you don't need a group

You do not need a group to make gold. Farm, DE underpriced greens for dust and shards, do dailies, do enchants for a set fee, sell scrolls. Find a way to come up with 1140g and you're done. And it shouldn't take you anywhere near 1.5 - 2.5 months plus a few thousand gold modest JC shopping list requires.

Your system is not fair to other members of your group. Unless they are your guildies, they are not going to benefit long term from materials they are giving you. Why are you demanding you're handed abyss crystals anyway? Only dream shards are used to purchase enchanting recipes. Isn't getting those your primary concern?

All in all, this 441 Enchanter / 452 JC does not think you're being reasonable or fair.

edit to clarify last sentence

Post by Ghazpharro

As an enchanter, I have to say that of course I want more access to mats.

I also have to say get a life.

Your arbitrary rules might make sense in guild runs where your guildies are going to see the immediate benefit from their generosity to you. They sacrifice time and gold to help level a guildie up for access to enchants on their gear at a lower cost. I don't charge guildies anything if I can avoid it, including mats, I never ask for a tip, and most times return any offered. I can make money off of other people using their mats or DE'ing greens and selling on AH.

If you want to start asking players to make the same type of sacrifice in time and money to help you in a PUG, by all means, don't let anybody here stop you. Just be prepared for the /kick thats coming your way.

Post by 206128

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Shamanic

I don't usually declare I'm an enchanter in a group unless anyone specifically asks, I don't greed on any blues, I don't want them (450 enchanting so don't need points), and fussing about who gets what at the end just takes time I often don't have. Guildies know I am and I'm quite happy to share with them, or most often they give me the mats and ask for something enchanted anyway, which of course I gain nothing from, as I can't get points anymore, and I don't ask for gold - but that's what you do with the guild.

I do see people's perspective though, that enchanting is the only class that has to "share" the mats gained in instances, miners can mine boss mobs and get a lot of good stuff, they roll for the mob with other miners, but don't share. LW will either roll for mobs or in my experience take turns, but they don't share their leather with the rest of the group, arctic fur goes for 60g on my server and you don't see them rolling on that and giving it away. Abyss shard goes for 100g on my server and enchanters are expected to give it away, BUT if everyone has chosen not to greed then they could potentially have gotten gold from greeding and vendoring the item. If enchanters won't be willing to share, people will greed all blues, just to vendor and the enchanter is still likely to end up with nothing or just the rolls they get lucky on - exactly the same with a DE and roll system.

So just suck it up or don't declare you're enchanter, take your chances at greeding like everyone else who's doing it to vendor.

I never made any money off enchanting whilst raising it up, it's just one of those things you accept, enchanting costs a lot to max out, but once you're maxed and can start offering your own mats, or sticking them on AH, there should be plenty of gold to justify it, and not need to be tight in instances.

Post by 167540

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by sugarzombie

... going an instance and be told to D/E and roll at the end, and in some cases, go away with no shards?

Just say No. They can't make you DE for them...

Post by Aydinn

I roll greed on all BoE.
Blue BoP ill take if no one else needs it.
Boss drops, ill take all the blue shards and roll on Epic.

Don't think of it as an epic gem, think of it as an epic item everyone can use.

I still leave with 5+ shards and a %20 chance to get an Epic.

Post by ZerXonE

I don't understand this. I believe the argument in the thread is about the BOP blue/epics that drop. If you do not have an enchanter in the group, those drops are for the most part, useless (minus vendor value), just like an herb or dead beast or ore node is. You can't later give someone a BOP item to disenchant.

The bold part is what people shouldn't be forgetting. People can use that gear by vendoring it. It's not much(5-20g), but it's still usable. The mining nodes can't be used at all if there's not a miner in the group. If the mining nodes could be vendored without being a miner, then yes, it would be comparable. But that's not how it is.

So the two can't be compared like that.

Post by Whacko

From my view as an enchanter:

I roll greed on everything. I don't disenchant for other people, not even epics. I do not bother doing /roll keeping track of who won what or what happened this year. Do you know why? I don't get to roll on mining nodes, or skinning materials. It's the exact same principle which works for those as disenchanting - people are using a profession (a different choice than mine) they leveled up to gain a profit or a character improvement. I don't gain from the other persons profession in that group and as such I cannot see any reason why they should gain from mine either.They are not getting to those nodes soloing it, nor killing the animals alone which can be skinned. I vendor blue BoP weapons for gold - shards cost less on the auction house on my auction house than the vendor price.

And with regards to the comment that other persons need materials for enchants. No you actually don't - since enchanters can enchant vellum with specific enchants and sell them on the auction house so you don't have to give any enchanting materials to a stranger and hope they don't logout. On a sidenote to that, a 5 or 10g fee is a mockery and a joke of a tip to the enchanter with regards to time and gold spent to obtain specific recipes. (This goes mainly for TBC enchants which were either world drops sold for 1-2k gold each on the auction house, or obscure droprates from mobs in deserted places - it was not 'fine in tbc' ) - I'm sorry to say it, but i've seen too many people roll need on BoE world drop recipe to sell it on the Auction House and then whine when there is a high fee when they need the enchant done. With regards to WotlK enchants - there is no point in actually leveling enchanting further up than when you get the ring enchant and can disenchant the greens for profit. Getting any recipes beyond leveling it to previously mentioned point won't make you any 'profit' whatsoever.

That's my opinion. Gl.

Post by ZerXonE

Whacko, why did you, as most of the others in this thread, ignore the argument that the gear has value even without an enchanter present? Let's take these two scenarios:

A blue chest piece drops and no one needs it. Without an enchanter the item can be vendored for 5-20g.

A party finds a cobalt node inside an instance. Without a miner the node has no value at all.

Do you see the difference? I'm all for allowing the enchanter to be guaranteed one shard or, in the case of above five shards, the extra shards. That's what I usually propose if I have an enchanter in my group. But letting the enchanter get the epic shard just because he is the one doing the disenchanting is too much. That is just way too greedy.

Tailoring is a common supplement to enchanting. So I'm wondering if the enchanters in this thread, who are saying that miners should share their materials, are share the extra cloth they are picking up. Because that is something which can actually be compared to the other gathering professions on similar ground.

Post by 120885

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by jeremiahfira

The OP's obviously a greedy preteen.

In a pug, we don't care how long it took to leveling your enchanting, that's your problem. Also, if you don't feel like DEing anything, fine! Everyone can just roll on the useless blue and vendor it for some repair money. You aren't as important as you're trying to make yourself appear that you need every epic crystal that comes along without question.

Post by danroe

In a pug, we don't care how long it took to leveling your enchanting, that's your problem.

And then i am greedy.

appear that you need every epic crystal that comes along without question.

Also true, that was a bit "overgreedy"

But well, since it was a prototype i never used it in an instance. It's also too complicated imo. I guess i just had one of those "Bad Days"

But what would you think about an enchanter who asked the group for one of the blue shards at the end? Would that still be "fair" for you?

Post by sajko

Post by JaxOmen

Interesting thread:) I like it

Looks like non enchanters dont know the situation at all... When i get 5g tip for enchant worth 500g.Just poor.When i say 15g tip response is:"ZOMG, ur #$%^ing crazy!" There are some poeple giving tip I expect but thats rarely...Most of People also expect me to do enchants like Mongoose for free...Cmon,walk with unenchanted gear around or don't be a $%^&.
Just my opinion, u can think whatever u want.

Sounds like you have bad luck with customers. I'm a JC and I get tips ranging from 10-30g per job (admittedly, often multiple cuts at once).

Considering that doing the enchant with their mats costs you NOTHING and in many cases might even be worth a skillup, you just look greedy when you complain about people not accepting your mandatory "tip" (hint: that's called a fee)

Rolling on Shards - Prototype System

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