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Hate for the Retribution Paladins?
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Post by
mojojojo101
I just got to 70 on my pala and bcoz im not taking my pala too seriously i thought it would be a laugh to try and make a name for myself as PvE retri. However the amount of resistence i have come up with is ridiculous. For example the other day i was looking for a kara PUG and asked the raid leader (in LFG) what they needed as last spot, he said dps so i was like.. yay .. however he asked me wat spec i was and i told him:retri(not gonna lie about it :-) ) and he said, i quote 'Lol.. whatever man.. i said we need a dps' I thought this was kinda rude but when i complained to him he put me on ignore :(.
However i did find a grp for kara last weekend, and despite my gear being preety rubbish for kara, i managed to come 3rd on damage meters ( beaten by a rogue and hunter who were much better geared than me) i was complemented by many of the group members for my good dps and this really got me wondering why oh why no one likes ret pallys.
I mean ret pallys bring alo to a raid group apart form dps, for instance 3% increased critical stike chance on the target for ALL raid members, Sanctity aura which if you have a pally tank increases there threat output by so much due to consecrate doing 12% more damage and obviously more blessings another Divine intervention and Blessing of Protection.
I kno there wasn't really a point to this post just wanted to have a rant and maybe try to make people give ret pallys a chance to dps in raids and 5 mans.
(Also wanted to kno if other ret pallys come across the same amount of ignorance)
Post by
Sakkura
Paladins always used to do horribly low DPS. It was improved a bit now and then, but never really caught up with "real" DPS classes until recently. Now, retribution is a spec that provides as good DPS as any other class. But many people haven't gotten used to that fact yet, and still think of paladins as the worst possible DPS.
For me, the only reasons to reject a ret paladin for a karazhan raid would be if the raid were full on melee already or if the paladin was really poorly geared.
Post by
storyr
Truth be told, once you get into 25 mans despite your mediocre DPS (kara doesn't count as gear levels for kara differ dramatically, especially in pugs) you bring a utility that is awesome. As you said, 3% increased crit, judges for certain classes and another pally buff (I LOVE KINGS AS A MAGE!!!).
Keep at it, there aren't many ret paladins, but if you find a guild who needs one, you have an almost guaranteed raid spot.
Post by
Saidon
I've been Ret up until level 67 when I respec'd to Protection. Ret was always fine in instances, my DPS was respectable but I would get so many PST's asking me to heal or tank. I may try Holy some day but for now Prot is what I'm going to try.
Post by
TheRazielim
For 3+ years, Retribution was really the bitch-spec for Paladins. Everyone wanted it to work - it just didn't. Recently (ie: post-TBC) it's gotten better, to the point that it's actually useful and relatively viable now. However the old prejudices don't go away. All the older players still have the mindset that "eww Ret sucks, respec Holy nub", all the newer players read all the crap the old players have written/said and blindly go along with that mentality of "eww Ret sucks, respec Holy nub".
Then there's also the absolute obsession with Damage Meters/WWS reports, etc. If you're not the absolute top of the charts, they label you as worthless/trash, etc. However most people don't have the sense to take into account the utility you bring that helps the other DPSers top the charts, and those that do are few and far in btwn. That 3% crit that no one remembers, or the extra damage from Sanctity Aura, etc - only the rare raid/guild leader that's actually fair and has a sense of the bigger picture ever remember those.
So yea, you're not alone. It's happened to all of us. I never had the energy to bother after BC, I just sank back - specced Holy and that's that. Might explain why even though he's my oldest and best geared char, my Paladin is my least played on a weekly basis. I log him for raids & when someone needs enchants done, rest of the time I'm on my Mage/Druid/Hunter/Warlock. Good luck to you if you try to keep with it. Just keep in mind, while it'll take a lot for you to be able to justify to the people you run with that you're useful - once you do and get the gear to keep that up, you're pretty damn dangerous.
Post by
98207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
It's an old prejudice that will take time to wash away. Druids used to get it too. Be awesome and surprise and impress people and help speed up the process :).
Post by
Izichial
http://wowwebstats.com/prjmtunvpxmso?s=19224-19726
Post by
125385
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Maradin
It's still only a toy - it shouldn't even touch the damage of a proper dps class, and the only real point is the judgements. I don't think you'd particularly miss it if you didn't have one, but if you do then there's no harm in taking him/her along.
No, you're still not getting a raid spot to dps as a druid!
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Ah, MC. I was dpsing as balance on trash (and usually in the top 5 because peoples concentration sucked) and healed/dispelled on boss fights.
Moonkins had to face lots of prejudice (and with reason before the 2.0 patch) and still faced them for a long time in BC even though they became viable. Even now, oomkin is still a term that's encoutered regularly.
As others said, prove them wrong by facts and remind them of how awesome you can be. Don't brag, that's not going to help, but convince them by force of example and slowly things will change.
It takes a long time though, the average player has been spoonfed "LOL RET !" for several years and will have trouble adapting to this new idea that they might be worth something.
Post by
62244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
Does any of the older players remember but it will take time (and people playing it right) to overcome peoples perceptions of the class.
As I said :).
Post by
TheRazielim
The big problem lately is just the lack of raw numbers from yourself. The raid utility is amazing, but it's not nearly as immediately visible as having Shadow Priest or Moonkin/Feral Druid.
Ret Paladins basically bring:
+1 Blessing (who gives a damn really, you could easily bring another Holy/Prot Paladin, it's still useful but it's not "Ret only")
+3% crit from *all* incoming attacks: This is huge, it doesn't only affect spells/melee in a single group - it's basically 3% for the entire raid. There's 2 major problems with this though in terms of visibility.
a) It's boosting the entire raid at once - so the actual contribution gets lost in the clutter, so to speak
b) It's easily available. It only requires putting 8pts in Ret to get it, so you can still have a Holy Paladin who gives up Blessing of Kings (oh no.. because there aren't 4-5+ other Paladins in your raid that don't all have it)
+2% dmg to the Paladin's group : Again, another very useful buff but doesn't show in terms of your raw numbers, which is what the simpletons look at.
The big thing is Crusader Strike's ability to refresh all Judgements on the target. Most guilds don't even bother using them anymore just because it requires having your healers in range to toss them and have to constantly keep refreshing them. Having a single Ret Paladin in the raid can keep those up almost indefinitely.
Any raid leader worth their salt should know all this because it's their job to know what each class brings to the table and how it can benefit the raid. However, good ones like that are really hard to find, and most of the remainder are pure "by-the-numbers" WWS/SWStats ^&*!@s who gauge everyone exclusively by the numbers they're putting out. Compounded on top of the already prevalent LOLRET mindset and you've got a really hard time ahead of you.
and tomas - it's not all of us hating on Paladins. Most of us know what we can do, but the OP asked us to share our experiences when we tell someone we're Ret to see if we all get the same general reaction... which, we do. The rest is just the reasons why we get those reactions from people.
Post by
106896
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
mrvirtue
Noob Questions:
3% increased crit strike on all targets for all raid members.
What is that from (aura, debuff)? Is that good for melee and range?
Post by
Gymnos
It's the Improved Seal of the Crusader debuff that gives that +3% critical strike. And it says "all" attacks, so I assume it includes spells/ranged/melee.
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