Post by pelf
Now, rake? Why do people use rake? It's off my screen. I've heard people use it for PvP, but I find FF better for that anyway. I can't see a reason to use it, well, ever.. is there one?
Well, FFF or FF is a magic debuff. Rake is a physical bleed debuff.
I present Cloak of Shadows
and its tooltip for your evaluation :).
Post by Lightrain
I guess with the mangle debuff, shred does more damage then? Yes? That's pretty lame. But then that makes it easier to do a powershift sequence yet again. Why you guys are so anti mana use I don't know. Sure, you can't do it over the long run continuously. You also can't Shred spam when you are solo either. You could try it in pvp, and probably get some good quick burst damage out of it, hoping that your opponent can't keep up with you and you can stay behind him while doing this. So tanked fights would be when this is really useful. I still don't get how you think adding attacks between your normal attacks is LESS
Why you are adding 4 second wait times I don't know. If you time so you attack right after the energy procs, powershift, attack, powershift, attack, you can get 3 or 4 consecutive shreds every 2 seconds. Throw in a mangle when the debuff drops, and Rip when it drops. You can't tell me that waiting 4-6 seconds for the next shred is LESS dps than a shred every 2 seconds. If Shred does more damage than FB, ok, use shred. You get what, 2 shreds and a mangle in between your rip renew right? Since you have to wait at least 4 seconds between each.
Is it so hard to understand that if your rip and mangle are up, you CAN shred every 2 seconds at the cost of mana? Conserve your mana and make sure you don't use more than 3k so you can potion and stop the powershift sequence. You add what, 2-4 shreds to your normal sequence(NOT NEGLECTING YOUR NORMAL SEQUENCE BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN EXTRA 200% ENERGY REGEN RATE AND CAN USE YOUR ABILITIES EVERY 2 SECONDS)
, potion, and go back to your grind. Since you want the most out of your "cooldowns", (i.e.- trinkets and potions), what would be the problem with this?
Evidently, the feral druid never uses any mana except to throw an HoT once in a while, battle res, or innervate.
You have proven me wrong on a couple points. Thank you. =) Rip is useless, and FB evidently is the lamest finishing move in the game. It sounds like a feral druid would only benefit from a FB if he spends 5 talent points in an almost useless talent. (Feral Aggression
) Even then, it may not be enough to out do shred, and for 5 talent points and 5 combo points, that's pathetic.
You also keep running symantics about nit picking stuff that I said
7 seconds, you had 100 energy(never happens) you mangle+rip back to back to open(asuming not in stealth). Even assuming you have a full 4 or 5 cp already on the target. Making this simple, so you don't have to use any other abilities.
Not using FB alone, I'm doing more DPS with 2 extra shreds in the same time period.
- 100e - 40e mangle -30e rip=30 energy+20e to start=50e -42e Shred=8e
- (loss of 8e)Power Shift=40e
- +20e=60e -42e shred=18e
- (loss of 18e)Power Shift=40e
- +20e=60e -42e shred =18e(ok, remove the FB)
- (loss of 18e) Powershift=40e
- +20e=60e -42e shred
I AM WAISTING energy by Power Shifting and abusing that 18e left over, basically saying it's not there. If you ignore the Power Shift gain in energy, I am doing double the DPE of your normal rotation using the 20e per 2 sec timer. But I need the ADDED energy from the Power Shifting to do so, making it less energy efficient.
Did you read it this time? Or just look at your table again? I also ran 2 talents back to back, and added the +20 energy for the 2 seconds, and used Shred
for the first attack. I was showing the energy from your debuff and normal uber dpe
talent of rip with a 5 count at 100 energy to give you
every chance you can get in a non existant scenario to benefit your
rotation with extra energy and combo points. If you want, I can even give you an extra 20e for the 2 seconds it takes to Rip and Mangle assuming, you hit Mangle right before the energy hit and you got 20e back for that as well. In my PS model, it doesn't matter tho. Yet another benefit.....
Or do you want me to pull it out of the first second line to show that it's NOT
in the first second?
you can powershift properly, 2 powershifts will get you an extra shred. in your NORMAL
max dpe/dps rotaion.
It's not efficient, yes. It's not sustainable, yes. It is more dps!
Whether it's worth it or not, that's up to the player. I'm talking about usable theory that is playable and possible.
Run symantics about Rake and FB and totally ignore the benefit. It's ok, I understand. Substitute here, erase there. Hey, it works!
I guess my posts are just too long and you don't actually read what I say. LOL! Sorry.... =)
Post by Corveroth
After all the *****ing and arguing, some summary:
- Claw is bad damage/energy- Mangle is the obvious replacement.
- Rake is bad damage/energy. It has a use though- it is a cheap bleed effect that can be useful in PvP.
- Ferocious Bite is bad damage/energy. This is largely the result of bad design, and patch 3.0 will introduce AP-based scaling for its spare energy > damage conversion, and Primal Aggression will increase its critical strike chance by 50% on bleeding targets (source). Until then, the only application is has is as an extra burst in PvP if you manage to be stuck between 35 and 42 energy- and you either know you'll kill your target, or won't need those combo points to Maim your target.
- Like Ferocious Bite, Tiger's Fury sucks until 3.0. When that patch hits, it will become a zero-energy 30s-CD ability with a similar effect.
- Rip is the only viable finisher for dealing damage. Maim is obviously useful for PvP (and the occasional interrupt in PvE, in the few cases where the mob is vulnerable to it). Ferocious Bite is bad for everything.
- The best PvE attack sequence is Rip, Mangle, Shred to 4/5 CP. Period. If you find yourself overflowing on energy while waiting for your last Rip to drop, Shred some more.
- Powershifting doesn't change any of the above points in the slightest. All it does is give you more energy, which accelerates your attack cycle.