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The Future of Lordaeron
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Post by
Adamsm
I can explain why what she made Baine say cannot be accepted as canon.But...it is Canon. Nothing you can say can change the fact that it was said in a novel, under the direction of Blizzard. So, yes, Baine has admitted Taurjo is a military target. That's pretty much end of discussion there.
I can say a million times that Kalec and Jaina did not hook up...and that does not make it any less true that it happened.
The reason it cannot be accepted as canon is simple. There is simply no way, logical or otherwise, Camp Taurajo can be described as a military target. It was not used for military purposes like Southshore, and to be honest it was an almost all-civilian town with the exception of a few guards to protect against quillboar raids.
And even if it were canon, the entire thing would still be irrelevant. Poor Baine might not have enough information on the event. He seems to not even know it
was
a massacre instead of an attack.
And yet....
it is still canon as it was written in a canon World of Warcraft book
; so, there you go, proof from Blizzard themselves who have admitted that the Camp was a valid military target, since it was the only way into Mulgore from the Barrens, which is why the Alliance hit it in the first place.
Post by
4dehorde
I can explain why what she made Baine say cannot be accepted as canon.But...it is Canon. Nothing you can say can change the fact that it was said in a novel, under the direction of Blizzard. So, yes, Baine has admitted Taurjo is a military target. That's pretty much end of discussion there.
I can say a million times that Kalec and Jaina did not hook up...and that does not make it any less true that it happened.
The reason it cannot be accepted as canon is simple. There is simply no way, logical or otherwise, Camp Taurajo can be described as a military target. It was not used for military purposes like Southshore, and to be honest it was an almost all-civilian town with the exception of a few guards to protect against quillboar raids.
And even if it were canon, the entire thing would still be irrelevant. Poor Baine might not have enough information on the event. He seems to not even know it
was
a massacre instead of an attack.
And yet....
it is still canon as it was written in a canon World of Warcraft book
; so, there you go, proof from Blizzard themselves who have admitted that the Camp was a valid military target, since it was the only way into Mulgore from the Barrens, which is why the Alliance hit it in the first place.
I still have yet to see any proof that Blizzard ordered Golden to write that sentence. And once again, Taurajo being on the way to Mulgore does not make it a military target. And even if it were, the Alliance did not have to massacre the town like they did.
Post by
Behelich
And don't say I justify Southshore because I don't.
Uno
:
So they wiped out most of Southshore, which in all fairness was a military staging ground and supply port.
Dos
:
As previously stated, in all fairness Southshore was in fact a legitimate target. It was a military staging ground and supply port. While the civilian casualties were regretful, a lot of people did in fact evacuate before the attack, as evidenced by the sheer number of Hillsbrad humans that later became worgen on Fenris Isle. Sure their deaths and conversion to Forsaken were ordered before they became worgen, but in the end that didn't happen to too many of them
Tres
:
As I have said before, it was a military staging ground and supply port. Having one of those in enemy hands so close to their territory gives the Forsaken justification to remove it from play.
Gee, that looks like trying to whitewash and justify Southshore to me. There's more where that came from.
Post by
4dehorde
And don't say I justify Southshore because I don't.
Uno
:
So they wiped out most of Southshore, which in all fairness was a military staging ground and supply port.
Dos
:
As previously stated, in all fairness Southshore was in fact a legitimate target. It was a military staging ground and supply port. While the civilian casualties were regretful, a lot of people did in fact evacuate before the attack, as evidenced by the sheer number of Hillsbrad humans that later became worgen on Fenris Isle. Sure their deaths and conversion to Forsaken were ordered before they became worgen, but in the end that didn't happen to too many of them
Tres
:
As I have said before, it was a military staging ground and supply port. Having one of those in enemy hands so close to their territory gives the Forsaken justification to remove it from play.
Gee, that looks like trying to whitewash and justify Southshore to me. There's more where that came from.
Ah I was hoping one of you guys would use my own words regarding Southshore. It helps me out a lot, thank you. These were not justifications for the way the attack on Southshore was carried out. They were justifications for the attack itself, which was perfectly legit.
Once again, I am still waiting on Taurajo and why you guys justify a civilian-hunt.
Post by
Behelich
Ah I was hoping one of you guys would use my own words regarding Southshore. It helps me out a lot, thank you. These were not justifications for the way the attack on Southshore was carried out. They were justifications for the attack itself, which was perfectly legit.
Once again, I am still waiting on Taurajo and why you guys justify a civilian-hunt.
I humbly request you to provide a quote where somebody tries to justify the exact way the attack on Taurajo has been carried out. So far, all that has been said was rationalizing the act of attacking a chokepoint to Mulgore in and of itself.
Post by
Atik
I still have yet to see any proof that Blizzard ordered Golden to write that sentence. And once again, Taurajo being on the way to Mulgore does not make it a military target. And even if it were, the Alliance did not have to massacre the town like they did.
What follows is an actual recording from Golden's office, not at all fabricated evidence for the sake of trolling.
Golden: OH MY GOD! Why do you have a gun?
Ghostcrawler: It's my nerfbat! Now shut up and listen. You're going to call Turajo a military target!
Golden: But it was a civilian town! How is that a military target?
Ghostcrawler: The area was strategically important to the Horde forces in Mulgore. It blocked the only entrance into the valley, was being used as a supply route, and would have been an excellent staging area for a counter-offensive on the Alliance forces.
Golden: Okay, that's pretty reasonable. I'll write it. But it's still a horrible thing for the Alliance to do.
Ghostcrawler: Duh, that's the point. Glad I didn't have to nerf you in the head... to the ground... six feet under.
Golden: What.
Ghostcrawler: GHOSTCRAWLER AWAAAAAAAY!
*The conversation is cut off by the sound of a motorcycle driving off and paniced, screaming office workers.*
Post by
4dehorde
Ah I was hoping one of you guys would use my own words regarding Southshore. It helps me out a lot, thank you. These were not justifications for the way the attack on Southshore was carried out. They were justifications for the attack itself, which was perfectly legit.
Once again, I am still waiting on Taurajo and why you guys justify a civilian-hunt.
I humbly request you to provide a quote where somebody tries to justify the exact way the attack on Taurajo has been carried out. So far, all that has been said was rationalizing the act of attacking a chokepoint to Mulgore in and of itself.
Very well...
Also, in regards to Camp Taurajo: Why is that so much worse then what the Forsaken did to Southshore?
You know the thing about war? People die. It is not about sparkly heroes and bravery and and the valiant charge and and that crap. It's about killing people. We honor our soldiers because they are capable of putting up with the most horrible environment on the face of the planet, and succeed. He does the fighting when some politician couldn't shut their bloody trap, and fixes the wrongs of someone else. But in the end, war is about killing people, and enforcing your will upon someone who didn't want it, reasons are reasons, be it you wanted to, or if you didn't they would enforce their will on you. And call me what you want, my family>your family as far as I am concerned. I will do what I must, and if society wants to blame me for it later, then feel free.
Two for now, but I can name others.
Post by
Rankkor
What post are you referring to?
This one, which I'll quote again for your convenience, its in page 13.
The author of Tides of War has a clear Alliance bias, and therefore that line cannot be accepted as canon.
Before anything, I'd like to remind you that I am one of the most
hardcore
horde fans in this website, and well over 3 dozen people can confirm that. So hardcore, that after jaina commited the warcrime of the purge of dalaran, I took my
blue haired and blue armored Death Knight
which is my main, and
Dyed her hair and armor in red.
As a personal vow that I wouldn't dye them back blue until I took revenge on Jaina and Vereesa for what they did.
And while Jaina was protected by blizzard's phasing powers (she's nowhere to be found where I can actually attack her) Vereesa wasn't, and I am not made of empty words, even if its just a game, I took
my revenge
on that monster, and not happy enough with that,
I added insult to injury.
So having cleared up my dedication to the horde, which NOBODY can refute, disprove, or downplay in any way, I tell you, that what you've said up there is wrong.
The Author of Tides of War is none other than Christie Golden, one of the best Pro-Horde authors ever hired by blizzard. She is the one who wrote Rise of the Horde, which managed to make none other than NER'ZUL a sympathetic figure. Lemme repeat that. She make NER'ZUL, the orc who would become the Lich King, A SYMPATHETIC FIGURE. And not happy enough about that, she made Doomhammer a frikking hero. And a badass one at that. And that's not even touching how awesome she made Durotan, Thrall's father.
She also wrote Lord of the Clans, a book that exposed the hypocrisy, cruelty, and viciousness of the alliance in ways no other author has ever done so before. And is pretty much a love letter to everyone who is a horde fan.
She also wrote The Shattering, a book that is equal parts alliance love as it is Horde love.
She also wrote Twilight of the Aspects, which pretty much puts Thrall in messianic status.
So you saying that she has a "clear" alliance bias is really not true. Unlike Richard A Kaak who is REALLY alliance biased, Golden is the most balanced writer that has been hired by blizzard, she never favors one side, and she does a fantastic job at getting inside the heads of the characters she's writing about. A scene about varian? She describes the horde as a horrible war machine of monsters. A scene about Thrall? she describes the horde as a ragtag band of outcasts who are surviving together a world that would see them dead.
And despite her balance, she still leans more towards the horde than the alliance, if her number of written books are anything to go by. (Pro-horde: Rise of the Horde, Lord of the Clans, Twilight of the Aspects, and Co-Wrote Beyond the Dark Portal. If this for some reason isn't enough for you, she also wrote the Volume 4 of the Warcraft Manga: "A Warrior Made" which is the story of Draka, Thrall's mom, as well as her tribe. Pro-Alliance stuff written by her? Arthas: Rise of the Lich king, which really isn't very "pro" alliance, as it shows the downfall of the alliance to the scourge, Tides of War, which is really a punch in the gut for both sides, and The Shattering, which is equal doses of love for both sides)
So yeah, excuse my language but "Clear Alliance Bias" my ass.
Now, I haven't been keeping up to speed on everything discussed here, I haven't really visited this thread since page 7 (or was it 5?) so I dont have much of a clue of all that has been discussed, but out of curiosity I took a peek, saw you dissing Golden, and I had to say something, not only because she's my favorite authoress from warcraft, but also because even I don't agree with most of what you've said. Mind you, I agree with SOME of what you've said, but not all of it. And I truly am one of the biggest horde fans in this here website.
Post by
Adamsm
I still have yet to see any proof that Blizzard ordered Golden to write that sentence. And once again, Taurajo being on the way to Mulgore does not make it a military target. And even if it were, the Alliance did not have to massacre the town like they did.
Because Golden could not have put it into the book without an okay from Blizzard? Same as any of the characters/situations that Knaak, Grubb and any other Blizzard writer needs before they can put something that does become lore.
And you could say the exact same thing about what the Forsaken did to Southshore and dropping a nuke on the Stormpike forces after all.
Post by
Lordplatypus
I took my blue haired and blue armored Death Knight which is my main, and Dyed her hair and armor in red.
Why would a blood elf wear blue in the first place?
(Off topic as hell)
Post by
Rankkor
I took my blue haired and blue armored Death Knight which is my main, and Dyed her hair and armor in red.
Why would a blood elf wear blue in the first place?
(Off topic as hell)
Long story :P part of the biography of my Dk. Besides, she's a Death Knight, as a former agent of the lich king, she wore the colors of the scourge.
In-story she's practically an outcast in silvermoon due to being undead (and serving the scourge even if unwillingly) but it simmered down after reclaiming and restoring Quel'delar but
.................. nevermind. It will probably sound boring/lame for everyone. I wrote that little story as a side thing and I know there's a lot of flaws into it but I like it for myself :P
Point is: My main spec is frost, and as a DK she used to be with the scourge, hence the blue color.
Post by
Behelich
I took my blue haired and blue armored Death Knight which is my main, and Dyed her hair and armor in red.
Why would a blood elf wear blue in the first place?
(Off topic as hell)
Long story :P part of the biography of my Dk. Besides, she's a Death Knight, as a former agent of the lich king, she wore the colors of the scourge.
In-story she's practically an outcast in silvermoon due to being undead (and serving the scourge even if unwillingly) but it simmered down after reclaiming and restoring Quel'delar but
.................. nevermind. It will probably sound boring/lame for everyone. I wrote that little story as a side thing and I know there's a lot of flaws into it but I like it for myself :P
Point is: My main spec is frost, and as a DK she used to be with the scourge, hence the blue color.
Come on rank, we won't bite much. Post the story!
Post by
EMPHaraljier
I'm not gonna say that I've read this entire thread, but I've seen enough of it to decide that I agree with the alliance fanboys here.
The Forsaken are
villains
!
Now let me ask you: what is wrong with that? You know, the whole reason the Undead were made a playable race was because players wanted to play as scourge, but rather than add a third playable faction, they just made the Forsaken and threw it in with the horde. Okay, I'm not entirely sure about that bit, but my point is...
The Forsaken are
supposed
to be evil! That is the point of their even being in this game! That is why I rolled one. I enjoy RPing as a villain sometimes. Does that mean I am anything like my character? No.
Does that mean that I support the blight? Well, the bad guys almost always have some evil death-spreading weapon up their sleeves, so I like it being in game but do I personally agree with it? Of course not! If I rolled a girl character (I'm a guy), does that mean that I'm a jerk off or effeminate? No, sometimes I just want to rp from the perspective of a girl! (My forsaken dk is a guy)
The point to all of this, is that the Forsaken are villains, and I like them that way. Sorry to everybody who thinks that they are just poor and misunderstood. /chuckle You guys are just gonna have to get over the fact that you are playing a villain race.
HOWEVER... as I said I
like
them as villains and I wouldn't want them removed from the game. Besides, it gives you alliance players somebody to fight with some justification. Tally Ho, oh white knights.
Post by
morginar
I took my blue haired and blue armored Death Knight which is my main, and Dyed her hair and armor in red.
Why would a blood elf wear blue in the first place?
(Off topic as hell)
Long story :P part of the biography of my Dk. Besides, she's a Death Knight, as a former agent of the lich king, she wore the colors of the scourge.
In-story she's practically an outcast in silvermoon due to being undead (and serving the scourge even if unwillingly) but it simmered down after reclaiming and restoring Quel'delar but
.................. nevermind. It will probably sound boring/lame for everyone. I wrote that little story as a side thing and I know there's a lot of flaws into it but I like it for myself :P
Point is: My main spec is frost, and as a DK she used to be with the scourge, hence the blue color.
Come on rank, we won't bite much. Post the story!
Indeed, i'm eager to read.
The Forsaken are villains!
In the eyes of the alliance all horde races are traitors,villians and warmongers...
And in the eyes of the horde the alliance are all Racist,self-righteus bastards and the like.
As a horde fan i don't see the forsaken as evil, malevolent yes, not evil.
Post by
EMPHaraljier
As a horde fan i don't see the forsaken as evil, malevolent yes, not evil
Well, something also to remember is that "Every villain is a hero in his own mind." That applies to the forsaken as well.
And I guess that forsaken are more anti-hero characters rather than out right villains, like Putress.
Power to the Forsaken!
Post by
Stabhorn
I think of the Forsaken as trying to do good the wrong way.
Post by
Snake387
I think of the Forsaken as trying to do good the wrong way.
Good? You really think Sylvanas is trying to good for anyone except herself and the forsaken?
Post by
morginar
I think of the Forsaken as trying to do good the wrong way.
Good? You really think Sylvanas is trying to good for anyone except herself and the forsaken?
Thats like the mindset a racial monarch should have.
And she does seem to care for the blood elves in TBC and in Tides. It's just in Lor'themars short story she seems uncaring for the Sin'dorei.
Post by
Stabhorn
I think of the Forsaken as trying to do good the wrong way.
Good? You really think Sylvanas is trying to good for anyone except herself and the forsaken?
Thats like the mindset a racial monarch should have.
And she does seem to care for the blood elves in TBC and in Tides. It's just in Lor'themars short story she seems uncaring for the Sin'dorei.
Trying to good for themselves.
Post by
Snake387
Yes but that's not necessarily good is it? She only cares about people who have something to do with her sentimentally, she'd do nothing for someone else unless her or the people she cares about require it and would happily kill them or desert them if it was in her interests. That isn't trying to be good or being good.
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