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Do you believe in God?
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Post by
MyTie
It's a hypothetical question.
It's also a nonsense question. "What if God required you to do something evil" is a nonsense question. Seriously. Why not just ask "What if blue were no blue, but instead blue were the number 117"? I'm so sick of hypotheticals that make no difference to the discussion. The worst ones are ones in abortion debates. Let's just take things as they are, and discuss them.
Post by
Gone
It's a hypothetical question.
It's also a nonsense question. "What if God required you to do something evil" is a nonsense question. Seriously. Why not just ask "What if blue were no blue, but instead blue were the number 117"? I'm so sick of hypotheticals that make no difference to the discussion. The worst ones are ones in abortion debates. Let's just take things as they are, and discuss them.
It's hardly something evil.
Post by
MyTie
It's hardly something evil.
Suicide isn't evil?
Post by
Magician22773
If you really think he is above right and wrong, and his word is law, he's always just, bla bla bla, is there a point where you would stop worshiping him?
No.
Post by
PTsICU
How does one tell the difference?
God wrote down what we are to do, and we can always refer to that. It's explicitly clear in how we are to live our lives. "Jumping off bridges" is not in the Bible. There is no "what if". "What if the Bible said to jump off a bridge"? It doesn't.
Can we move on now?
The statement wasn't what the Bible said, but what if God told you to jump off a bridge. As in, God talked to you directly.
My response was directed to Ryjacork. If the discussion makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should just skip it and move on.
Post by
MyTie
If the discussion makes you uncomfortable
lol... You don't know me do you?
The statement wasn't what the Bible said, but what if God told you to jump off a bridge. As in, God talked to you directly.
So... I'm just trying to understand this.
God said that He doesn't give signs (as in direct speech) to us. God is infallible. And you are saying that if God was wrong, and infallible, and did give me speech, to do something to harm myself, that he told me not to do, what would I do. So, what would I do if God, who doesn't make mistakes, made a mistake, and whos word is written in stone, literally, changed His word... what would I do. If X were not X, would X still be X? If absolute good were to command something that were not good. Hypothetical, right?
Let me ask you a hypothethical: If something that isn't was, would it be?
If you find yourself unable to answer that, it's just because you are "uncomfortable with the question".
Lol. So much silliness. Should be on Monty Python.
Post by
Magician22773
The statement wasn't what the Bible said, but what if God told you to jump off a bridge. As in, God talked to you directly.
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
Now, there is
one
possibility here:
In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.
However I doubt that the second coming of Christ is going to consist of Him asking me to jump off a bridge, but if the sum has disappeared, the moon has turned to blood, and all the other signs of the End of Days are present, and He should happen to decide to command me to jump...yeah, I will jump.
Post by
Gone
It's hardly something evil.
Suicide isn't evil?
It's wrong, but I wouldn't call it evil. And for the sake of this situation nothing God says is evil.
Post by
MyTie
It's hardly something evil.
Suicide isn't evil?
It's wrong, but I wouldn't call it evil. And for the sake of this situation nothing God says is evil.
There is nothing that you can do that is wrong, that is not evil. There are things that are neither good, nor evil, like playing solitaire, but if something choosing to do something wrong, is evil. The two are synonymous.
I'm having a really hard time with the discussion. On one hand, I have people demanding to know what I would do if God told me to do something God would never tell me to do, and on the other hand, I have someone insisting that things that are wrong aren't evil. I feel like we all need to go back to the ABCs of morality.
Post by
Gone
It's hardly something evil.
Suicide isn't evil?
It's wrong, but I wouldn't call it evil. And for the sake of this situation nothing God says is evil.
There is nothing that you can do that is wrong, that is not evil. There are things that are neither good, nor evil, like playing solitaire, but if something choosing to do something wrong, is evil. The two are synonymous.
I'll have to disagree with you on that one. I think that evil is an extreme word, and maybe it would apply to suicide, maybe not, that's debatable. But saying everything that's wrong is also evil is stupid.
For example, breaking the speed limit and littering are wrong, but I don't think even you would call them evil. I know the suicide thing is in a different league, but that's a topic for a different discussion.
I won't press you on the other thing, I was just surprised by how much resistance you had about answering the question. To me it's a simple answer, if God was commanding me to do anything, and yes it really was God, I wasn't suffering a break from reality, I would do it without a second thought.
Post by
MyTie
For example, breaking the speed limit and littering are wrong, but I don't think even you would call them evil.
It is evil to disobey God, even a little. God tells us, through Paul, to obey the governing authorities. The government is the authority on the speed limits.I was just surprised by how much resistance you had about answering the question.
The question was borked. It made no sense. It was a self contradictory what if. Divide by 0. Answer yes, and answer no. No, I won't do evil, I follow God. So what if God commands evil? The answer is "He doesn't".
Post by
Haxzor
For example, breaking the speed limit and littering are wrong, but I don't think even you would call them evil.
It is evil to disobey God, even a little. God tells us, through Paul, to obey the governing authorities. The government is the authority on the speed limits.
What if the governing body is clearly anti-Christian and forbid the study of Christ? (As is the way in some countries)
Post by
MyTie
What if the governing body is clearly anti-Christian and forbid the study of Christ? (As is the way in some countries)
I said governing
authority
. Government is not the authority on Christ's teachings, so therefore, it is not to be followed in that. Similarly, a plumber isn't the authority on brain surgery. You wouldn't ask a plumber to perform brain surgery on you, nor would you submit to his authority if he told you that you were going to let him. If government passed a law that said everyone is going to go to Heaven no matter what, God wouldn't respect that law, because they aren't the authority. However, government is the authority on roadway usage.
Governing
authority
. Not governing
body
. Big difference.
Post by
Haxzor
What if the governing body is clearly anti-Christian and forbid the study of Christ? (As is the way in some countries)
I said governing
authority
. Government is not the authority on Christ's teachings, so therefore, it is not to be followed in that. Similarly, a plumber isn't the authority on brain surgery. You wouldn't ask a plumber to perform brain surgery on you, nor would you submit to his authority if he told you that you were going to let him. If government passed a law that said everyone is going to go to Heaven no matter what, God wouldn't respect that law, because they aren't the authority. However, government is the authority on roadway usage.
Governing
authority
. Not governing
body
. Big difference.
Nice answer
Post by
PTsICU
So... I'm just trying to understand this.
God said that He doesn't give signs (as in direct speech) to us. God is infallible. And you are saying that if God was wrong, and infallible, and did give me speech, to do something to harm myself, that he told me not to do, what would I do. So, what would I do if God, who doesn't make mistakes, made a mistake, and whos word is written in stone, literally, changed His word... what would I do. If X were not X, would X still be X? If absolute good were to command something that were not good. Hypothetical, right?
Let me ask you a hypothethical: If something that isn't was, would it be?
If you find yourself unable to answer that, it's just because you are "uncomfortable with the question".
Lol. So much silliness. Should be on Monty Python.
Again, this was a question directed at Ryjacork's statement. I am not proposing anything here. I'd suggest you go back and read what was written previous to my entry. Perhaps then, my question would make sense.
Post by
MyTie
Again, this was a question directed at Ryjacork's statement. I am not proposing anything here. I'd suggest you go back and read what was written previous to my entry. Perhaps then, my question would make sense.
Ok, I went back and reread. You are saying, apart from the Bible, if God said something, the "what if" context exists. I'm saying that the Bible is the word of God, God is infallible, therefore "what if" God said something contrary to the Bible, makes no sense. It's not that I don't understand the question. I understand the question. The problem is that it makes no sense.
If I were to ask you:
What is nine divided by purple?
You understand the question. You can read the words, and the words have meaning. The problem is, that the question is non-sense.
Your question, that you propose to Ryja, makes as much sense, as "Well, what if you COULD divide nine by purple, what would the answer be?" The answer is "you can't".
Post by
PTsICU
Ok, I went back and reread. You are saying, apart from the Bible, if God said something, the "what if" context exists. I'm saying that the Bible is the word of God, God is infallible, therefore "what if" God said something contrary to the Bible, makes no sense. It's not that I don't understand the question. I understand the question. The problem is that it makes no sense.
I'm not saying anything. I'm certainly not implying any of the things you have been bringing into the mix. My question was very simple and to the point. It was asking Ryjacork how he would determine the difference between God telling him to jump, and a psychotic episode (his words in his post) (I'm assuming Ryjacork is a male, if not, I apologize).
reposted:
If I knew it was really God and I wasn't having a psychotic episode, then yes I would jump off a bridge if God told me to.
to which I simply asked:
How does one tell the difference?
I hope that explains it better.
Post by
Gone
The question was borked. It made no sense. It was a self contradictory what if. Divide by 0. Answer yes, and answer no. No, I won't do evil, I follow God. So what if God commands evil? The answer is "He doesn't".
But God has commanded people to do things like that many times. Aside from the example I gave you already with Abraham and Issac, there are lots of instances in the Bible where God commands people to break his laws under special circumstances. If God commands you to do it, then it's not evil.
EDIT: It's not like as you say "nine divided by purple" btw, because again, God commands people to break his laws sometimes, it's not like this is something that he would never do.
How does one tell the difference?
It's a hypothetical instance, just assume he somehow proved to me that he was legit. He cured my blindness (I'm not blind, just for the sake of this argument say I was) or turned my car into cheese or something.
Post by
Magician22773
Ryja,
MyTie, and I have both provided you the Scripture that explains this. At this point, this is feeling like badgering.
God has said in the Bible that he will not be doing "personal appearances" like you are asking about until He makes a final return, and at that point, I don't think He is going to be doing parlor tricks.
The Bible even warns against someone showing up and turning you car into cheese.
Post by
Gone
Ryja,
MyTie, and I have both provided you the Scripture that explains this. At this point, this is feeling like badgering.
God has said in the Bible that he will not be doing "personal appearances" like you are asking about until He makes a final return, and at that point, I don't think He is going to be doing parlor tricks.
The Bible even warns against someone showing up and turning you car into cheese.
It's a hypothetical question, "suppose God did", what if he was born 3,000 years ago instead of today. I don't mean to badger, his answers just seemed kind of evasive which I thought was kind of strange. I'll drop it now.
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