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Is "expressing" an opinion the same as "forcing" that opinion on others?

Post by Magician22773

Moving this from another topic to keep it on track, and allow further discussion. To bring everyone up to speed, this is from the other topic.

But what right do some people have to force their moral view point on others?

I do not see any reason to make a blanket moral decision on behalf of everyone regarding the morality of it. It's up to them and their situation. No one else.

No one is going out into the world, finding unwed people, and "forcing" their views on them. This discussion is about having a conversation about moral views.

I wouldn't say "no one" is doing that MyTie. I know there are groups that do in fact go around "forcing" or rather "expressing" their views about this subject.

If "expressing" a view is equal to "forcing" that view, then that would have to apply to the homosexual marriage issue. By this measure, the gay rights community is "forcing" their beliefs on Christians.

The gay community is forcing their beliefs on Christians? I personally can't even respond to that... just sounds too absurd.
I would actually say more but this thread isn't intended for that and it's outside the present topic so I'll just leave it with that

I hope this is an accurate representation of the conversation in the thread. If you feel I left out something that is important to frame the discussion, please feel free to add it in. I did not intentionally try to "selectively edit" here, I just did not want to quote more than was necessary.

So, as the title says, Should simply expressing your opinion or belief, especially in regards to morality or religion, be considered "forcing" that belief onto someone that does not have the same opinion or belief as you do? Is their a point where is becomes forceful, and if so, what is that point? And if you believe that a Christian expressing their beliefs is "forcing" them on non-believers, does the same hold true to non-believers when they express their opinion?

Post by Sas148

I'll just note that I don't mind this discussion be taken here but that I don't personally have anything further to contribute to it.

But, as long as everyone is respectful, have at it! :)

Post by Monday

Hey Magician, completely random and somewhat off-topic, but I noticed that you used: ___________________________________________________________________________________________

as a divider line. I suggest using \, which looks like this:

Anyways, continue with the topic >.>

Post by PTsICU

I think where the term forcing applies, is when someone keeps saying the same things over and over, even after the parties involved have acknowledged the opinion and moved on.

It likely also involves a party that includes direction towards others in their comments, or the giving of "advice" that is unwarranted.

I try to keep my comments to my own regards without projecting them towards others. What's right for me, is for me. This is also why I hardly ever discuss a topic such as religion in the company of others. Religion is like the flavor of ice cream. Some like vanilla, some chocolate, and some don't like ice cream at all. I have no right or desire to tell others that chocolate is the best and only flavor worthy of ice cream.........even though it really is :P j/k

Post by MyTie

I think the phrase is used as an offensive/defense mechanism against moral opinions. When a Christian, or otherwise, makes a moral judgment, the line is used. "Forcing beliefs on others". It's a bit irritating.

Others will disagree. I maintain the position. There's really not much else I have to contribute.

Post by Magician22773

Post by pikeyboy

There's a whole thread on gay marriage, and Mytie has created another on religion, so I get a bit annoyed when the same arguments keep infiltrating threads on completely different subjects.

I don't think anyone can force somebody else to believe anything. However, people can get evangelistic (and I don't actually mind that. I am always polite to Jehovah's Witnesses when they call, as that's what their beliefs say they should do, and it just causes a minor inconvenience). It's one thing to answer a straight question with a straight answer, but quite another to go banging drums. That's just tedious.

(This is collective, not a personal comment on anyone on the forum, and is a general comment, not intended to cause insult to anyone.) You believe in God. I don't. That is not going to change, and I personally have no interest in changing your belief in God. You cannot force me (or others) to believe by reiterating your personal reasons.

I have a non religious belief that more public funds should be diverted to help the mentally ill, but I don't think I have ever mentioned it, as a pertinant topic hasn't arisen yet.

Expressing a view is the right thing to do, but only to the topic in hand. It's enough to say " No/Yes verse so and so" and leave it at that. We understand. It's faith, so though we may not agree with it, nobody can disagree with it in a way that can show that it's wrong. We just get to see who you are, and what you believe, and why.

When it comes to politics (where laws are made that actually affect people), go by your opinion, and argue the toss. That's what politics is; it can get heated, but that's the point. Without it, we end up at war. The free vote decides. The losers get somebody else's viewpoint in charge, and have to suck it up until next time. Democracy. That doesn't mean that they should stop thinking, or talking to people.

For forum purposes, could we all try to keep discussion to the topic at hand? No long diversion to the pernickities of Christianity, socialism, any other ideology? Those who want to do that can (and have) created separate threads. It would make the site a more enjoyable place. If someone has a basic position, state it, but only state it once.

Post by FatalHeaven

I am a Christian. Returning from a nearly decade long hiatus where I retreated from my faith. While I do have my opinions and such, I think I have done a decent job here of being fair to all. I am not quick to judge; moreover, I try to not judge at all. It isn't my place. I will always be open to others opinions as long as they are respectful with speaking them.

I think the "force" part comes in when respect for the other person is lost.

so I get a bit annoyed when the same arguments keep infiltrating threads on completely different subjects.

My sentimate exactly.

Post by pikeyboy

Hello Fatal. Although I do not believe in any gods, I do believe that Jesus existed, and had many wise things to say. You are welcome to my house, spare shirt, and if you couldn't do it yourself, I'd wash your feet. I hope you find joy in your newfound tradition, and do likewise for others, especially your daughter: love before condemning. As I understand it, that decision is for God to make.

Post by Magician22773

I get a bit annoyed when the same arguments keep infiltrating threads on completely different subjects.

As I mentioned in the other thread (Irony....amirite:-), you have to look at the topics and questions that keep comming up. Especially in the Question and Debate of the Day topics.

If you do not want them to steer towards religion and homosexuality, don't create a topic about a moral subject. As a Christian, my morality stems from my faith, so if the topic is about morality, I am going to respond with religion. That usually is met with the atheist counter-argument, and the topic devolves back to the same "Christian vs. Atheist" debate, that yes, should be in the Religion topic.

This current topic, and teh derailment that spawned it, came when the post was made about "expressing" an opinion to be "forcing" it in others. That contradicted the homosexuality thread where one of the arguments made from the gay community their lifestyle should not affect others that held different opinions. (Which, with the exception of the term "marriage", I completely agree). I only wanted to know why expression of their beliefs is not considered to be "forcing" them on Christians? I believe it was a fair question.

I think the "force" part comes in when respect for the other person is lost

I see where you are comming from here, but I don't think even that is "forcing" anything, it is just what you said....disrespectful.

When I saw this in the Religion thread:

when I was a christian it was nothing but "sit on your butt and pray for the magic man in the sky to make things better, and oh yeah you should hate your natural urges too!" I pay more attention to events happening in the world, and see things for how they are. I know now that the abrahamic religions are just stories inside of fictional books.

I didn't feel like I was being forced to worship satan, I just felt disrespected as a Christian. (Actually, I kinda ROFL'd, to be honest....but thats better suited for that topic)

BTW, Fatal. How is the Church Search going? (Off topic, I know....but its MY topic...muhahahahah!)

Post by Interest

Probably echoing the above, I consider the expression of an opinion something like this:

As long as the person in question isn't aggressive via excessively discussing their opinion, being derisive about conflicting opinions, or denying others the right to their expressed (note how I say expressed) opinions, I believe it to be the former. There are some "tells" or "exceptions" to this logic depending on the attitude of the person and/or the method in which the opinion is expressed.

My philosophy is something like that, anyways.

Post by Adamsm

Post by Tenjen

depends if the opinion has proper foundation, is well informed and researched and assured, mature and open.

And also if its not toxic.

opinions are also open to be debated..or vehemently bashed, as it may be.

Post by gnomerdon

the tone of the message matters

ex. i'm a christian, and it''s the way of life that we should all follow because it's the only whay
the tone of this message will churn a few stomachs.

if i said this,

ex. i'm a christian, and this is what i would normally do.
this tone speaks only for yourself and what u believe in, giving little regard to persuade different parties

Post by pikeyboy

Express your opinion all you want, but if you start using said opinion to back inhumane laws, taking away the rights of others, and just plain be a pain in the butt, I'd prefer it if people take the golden rule of 'can't say anything nice, don't open your fat mouth and put your foot in it'.

Surely "nice" depends on your point of view. I'd rather that people say what they really think and feel, regardless of how horrible it is, or how much I disagree with them. That way, I know who they are, where they stand, and why.

If somebody says " those cartoons you drew of Mohammed were really out of order, because he is the last prophet of God", that's fine. It's an opinion that should be respected. To extrapolate that into a fatwa is an incitement to violence or oppression towards somebody who drew a cartoon.

If I say "the King of Thailand stifles dissent. He should be overthrown, and a constitutional republic established, as all monarchy is outdated, and should be abolished." I could get a very heavy sentence in a very bad jail, if I said that in Thailand. People wouldn't think that was a "nice" thing to say, but I shouldn't face sanctions unless I added an incitement to violence.

You can't force people to accept your views. They may change their minds, but nobody can make them do it. All that people can do is say "If you don't do what I say, I'll hurt you". Historically, as in the FDR, that wall eventually gets broken to bits by the power of popular resentment.

Post by FatalHeaven

Magician: It's still going. I meant to go today but wasn't able to. I think we'll visit the church we intended to today during an evening mid-week service.

Is "expressing" an opinion the same as "forcing" that opinion on others?

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