This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please
enable JavaScript
in your browser.
Live
PTR
Beta
Classic
What will happen to Garrosh?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Vacuos
Baine's revenge for what? For the fact that Garrosh killed him in a honorable duel (well Garrosh didn't know at the time that Magatha poisoned his axe)? A duel were it was Cairne who challanged Garrosh? A duel were Cairne challenged Garrosh and accusing him of atrocities he did not commit?
Post by
MrSCH
Baine's revenge for what? For the fact that Garrosh killed him in a honorable duel (well Garrosh didn't know at the time that Magatha poisoned his axe)? A duel were it was Cairne who challanged Garrosh? A duel were Cairne challenged Garrosh and accusing him of atrocities he did not commit?
Baine's revenge for his father's death.
1. I didn't mention his revenge against Garrosh.
2. As stated, I don't know if he already has it.
Post by
Vacuos
Baine's revenge for what? For the fact that Garrosh killed him in a honorable duel (well Garrosh didn't know at the time that Magatha poisoned his axe)? A duel were it was Cairne who challanged Garrosh? A duel were Cairne challenged Garrosh and accusing him of atrocities he did not commit?
Baine's revenge for his father's death.
1. I didn't mention his revenge against Garrosh.
2. As stated, I don't know if he already has it.
Aha... I just thought as this being a thread about Garrosh you ment that Baine's revenge would be against Garrosh. As you didn't specify. And Garrosh's future is what the thread is about.
Post by
Vacuos
People talking about his redemption and him learning through Cata forget one thing - MoP. Assuming the last boss comes way after release, which it will, questing through MoP might show Garrosh turn into a right knob.
I don't really see what he needs redemption for. I actually thinks he hasn't done anything directly wrong. Sure he's not lead the Horde perfectly, but being unskilled at a job you claimed you wouldn't be good at but still were appointed to is not a crime or anything you should be punished for. If he needs redemption that would according to me only be because he may do something really wrong in MoP, which would be a pity. I don't really like that they would ruin his character by doing something that is blatantly wrong and unacceptable. It doesn't really fit the code of honor that he's actually following.
Post by
Levarus
Hellscream's Future - Getting pugged by Pandas.
Post by
MrSCH
don't really like that they would ruin his character by doing something that is blatantly wrong and unacceptable. It doesn't really fit the code of honor that he's actually following.
The world isn't black and white, and neither is the World of Warcraft. I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Garrosh could warrant his own death while maintaining some perverse sense of honor and loyalty. A death borne of necessity - not desire - would have more impact for me, at least, than 'omg he's bad kill him'.
And yes, I know this thread is about his future. People were also talking mechanics now and then - so I just chucked in the stuff about Baine, as I thought it related somewhat. *Shrug*.
Post by
Vacuos
don't really like that they would ruin his character by doing something that is blatantly wrong and unacceptable. It doesn't really fit the code of honor that he's actually following.
The world isn't black and white, and neither is the World of Warcraft. I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Garrosh could warrant his own death while maintaining some perverse sense of honor and loyalty. A death borne of necessity - not desire - would have more impact for me, at least, than 'omg he's bad kill him'.
If Garrosh would warrant his own death it
would
mean either doing something blatantly wrong which would make everyone hate him as a person and not just as a leader. It could also mean Garrosh continuing executing his role as warchief in the same bad way the he's doing now, and not eventually coming to his senses and willingly step down from his leadership. A leadership he himself admitted he wasn't suited for and tried to persuade Thrall not to give him.
The first option here just doesn't fit him, Garrosh is not a perfect person but he is not the kind of man who acts without honor. The second option would be slightly more fitting to his personality, I think at least. I do however not think it would be entirely fitting to it. The scenario in MoP were to be both Alliance forces invading and Horde forces rising up against him if I remember correctly. Quite alot of Horde forces as well. Everything Garrosh is doing is for the well being of the Horde (at least that's his purpose for it, failing as much of it does); Garrosh wants the best for the Horde. That the Alliance comes this close to (or maybe succeeds with) conquering Orgrimmar, the core of the Horde, would no doubt shake Garrosh. To me it seems most fitting with his character to let him realise that the Horde under his rule is to weak and divided. Because it obviously lead to the alliance succeeding to invade. I would think judging by Garrosh's personality and previous actions he would step down here. He only wants the best for the Horde after all.
Post by
MrSCH
The first option here just doesn't fit him, Garrosh is not a perfect person but he is not the kind of man who acts without honor.
I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Garrosh could warrant his own death while
maintaining some perverse sense of honor
and loyalty..
Post by
Vacuos
I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Garrosh could warrant his own death while
maintaining some perverse sense of honor
and loyalty..
"Some perverse sense of honor" does not sound very honorably... It sounds like he does not preserve any real honor but simply trick himself into believing he preserve his honor. I don't see Garrosh as someone who have so little self-awareness.
If you then actually mean that he preserves his honor and loyalty (and not just tricking himself) what could he possibly do to warrant his own death?
Post by
MrSCH
I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Garrosh could warrant his own death while
maintaining some perverse sense of honor
and loyalty..
"Some perverse sense of honor" does not sound very honorably... It sounds like he does not preserve any real honor but simply trick himself into believing he preserve his honor. I don't see Garrosh as someone who have so little self-awareness.
If you then actually mean that he preserves his honor and loyalty (and not just tricking himself) what could he possibly do to warrant his own death?
It's just like the thing at the beginning of The Shattering - he attacks the Alliance ships, despite the fact that they have no defenses and are flying the white flag, and then spares a handful of them. To him, that's honorable - to me, at least, attacking them in the first place nullifies any sense of honor.
That's the way I see him. It's just my interpretation, and I think it would be easy for him to fall to villainy.
Post by
Vacuos
Aha but then you have to remember that first and foremost it's about the Hordes interpretation of honor, not really yours or mine. To much of the Horde this may have been seen as an honorable defence of their territory. I would not believe that the majority of the Horde would want to behead him for something like that. Possibly parts of it would see it as a reason for him to step down as Warchief however.
Post by
Adamsm
Forsaken: Garrosh called their Queen a *!@#$, no matter how true it is, is gonna peeve off the Undead.
Blood Elves: They don't really care about him, beyond the fact they are still lumped in with the Forsaken on EK.
Trolls: Vol'jin hates him, so more then likely the Trolls feel the same.
Tauren: Baine hates him, and eventually wants to get 'justice' for what happened to his father at the hands of Garrosh, but knows that now isn't the time.
Goblins: Considering the Kor'kon captures the new Gob and their pack Hobgoblin, then the entire group gets the slums of Orgrimmar, probably ambivalent at the moment; though, we know that the Steamwheedle Cartel liked Cairne, or at least portions of it did.
Orcs: Split; those who came with Garrosh from Outland and the Mag'hari are his firm supporters, those who feel that Thrall's way of rule was hurting them support Garrosh, and those who think Thrall had the right idea don't support him.
Over all, Garrosh is a polarizing figure, but honestly at this point, I'm sure we'll see him overshadowed by a Sha and we'll have to get it out of him for the last big fight...but I still don't see Garrosh dying at the end anymore.
Post by
Vacuos
Interesting! I didn't know Baine hated him, and can't really see why. Unless there's an irrational explanation of course, it can be like that with feelings involved. But where did you get that information that Baine hates him from?
Post by
Adamsm
Interesting! I didn't know Baine hated him, and can't really see why. Unless there's an irrational explanation of course, it can be like that with feelings involved. But where did you get that information that Baine hates him from?
The Shattering: He was very tempted to challenge Garrosh at the end but changed his mind, stating that he'll watch the orc and if he does anything like Grom, he'll be one of the first people there after his head and he also knew that it would just throw the Horde into further chaos if Garrosh died at that point.
Edit: Vacuos, this is twice now that someone has brought that up, and you ignored it the first time from MrSCH; have you actually read the book?
Edit 2: Remember all books are considered canon by Blizzard themselves.
Post by
Vacuos
Yes I read the Shattering and although it was a while ago I didn't interprete the text as if Baine actually hated Garrosh. Something you have to remember here is that Cairne had just died by Garroshs hand, something which obviously would make Baine upset. I shall however look into that part of the book as soon as I get home to it.
I do however doubt that Baine would hate Garrosh, I detected no such feelings from Baine when I just reread Baine Bloodhoof: As Our Fathers Before Us. And that would be a younger and more up to date source regarding Baines feelings to Garrosh.
Edit: Vacuos, this is twice now that someone has brought that up, and you ignored it the first time from MrSCH; have you actually read the book?
The first time someone brought what up? Can't see that I ignored anything. If you mean it's twice now that someone brought up Baines hatred for Garrosh I'd say that you're likely wrong.
Baine's revenge for what? For the fact that Garrosh killed him in a honorable duel (well Garrosh didn't know at the time that Magatha poisoned his axe)? A duel were it was Cairne who challanged Garrosh? A duel were Cairne challenged Garrosh and accusing him of atrocities he did not commit?
Baine's revenge for his father's death.
1. I didn't mention his revenge against Garrosh.
2. As stated, I don't know if he already has it.
Post by
Adamsm
As Our Father's Before Us:
He's still leery of Garrosh, and thinks he'll get himself killed if he doesn't smarten up. He may not have openly said it in the short story(considering the hack job that the writers did with the others, entirely possible they forgot about that), but if it came down to Garrosh about to do something to destroy the Horde, he'd be there trying to stop it, right alongside Vol'jin.
Also, from the Shattering:
Baine confronts Garrosh in Thousand Needles, accusing him of willfully participating in Magatha's treachery. Garrosh insists that he was unaware of the trickery until it was too late, and expects that Baine will also challenge him. Baine refuses, believing that Cairne's challenge was intended to unite the Horde and another challenge would divide it further, and begrudgingly considers the matter settled. Though he is still angry at Garrosh for his part in his father's death (after all, Garrosh had upped the ante by making the Mak'gora a duel to the death), Baine acknowledges him as his Warchief, to which Garrosh, admiring the new High Chieftain, pledges the loyalty of the Horde to the new leader of the tauren.
Post by
Vacuos
Blaming that the writers forgot if Baine would hate Garrosh do seem like a bit of a stretch. I do believe you would do well remembering that these short stories also are canon...
As to your quote from
http://www.wowpedia.org/Baine_Bloodhoof
(in the future when you quote something, write the correct source), it says nothing of Baine hating Garrosh. It says that Baine at least first believed Garrosh was in on the treachery. It simply states that "he is still angry at Garrosh for his part in his father's death". It would be a surprise if he would not be angry as Baines father were killed recently. I still cannot detect hate.
I completely agree that Baine would be there trying to stop Garrosh if he ever did something to destroy the Horde. But why would Garrosh want to destroy the Horde?
Post by
Adamsm
But why would Garrosh want to destroy the Horde?....That's pretty much the entire point of the thread; since the Devs said we'd be fighting Garrosh at the end of MoP, but haven't said why(still going with Sha Possession); whatever he does while under the thrall of the Sha is probably going to affect the entire Horde, and not in a good way.
Also: I quoted the section about Baine from the Shattering section of his page, not that hard to scroll up on a page.
Post by
Vacuos
Still quoting has to very exact. You wrote "Also, from the Shattering:" which is just not true.
But never mind about quoting problems now. I really hope they don't go with Sha possession, everyone seems to be possessed nowadays... Would be really nice if Blizzard could let the faction leaders (not only the playable factions) be in control of themselfs. But maybe it's just me who prefer the more political and more "realistic" explanations and situations to play out...
Post by
Adamsm
Considering how Garrosh has shown to feel about dishonorable tactics and corruption, it's about the only way to pull him off as an actual boss; he needs that corruption to be convincing.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
© 2021 Fanbyte
