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Discussion on IP piracy
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Post by
Adamsm
Which is the main issue heh.
Post by
Squishalot
Hey, you asked, I simply replied with my view. I don't see what makes a manga subbing service overly different from someone distributing music and subbing lyrics to the stream.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
I know you did; but the largest issue is that they don't want to release that stuff over seas, with a real company doing it, or you are over charged for a book version; 180 pages at 10.99 a piece with volumes that can easily reach 100+.
Post by
Squishalot
Not really. If I were a company in Japan, I would charge a token access fee (e.g. $2/volume or something) and make profits where I could, iTunes style. I believe the issue is that they have no motivation to, because setting up that structure is costly, and that the number of people willing to pay for it (versus those who will still download for free anyway) isn't sufficient to cover costs.
Post by
Adamsm
There was one main manga company a while ago, called Tokyopop; they charged out the ass for the books; as in, for the size of the things, they had a major mark up and a lot of the subbing was really horrible and the volunteers on sites such as onemanga and mangafox actually had more true to the original script translations.
Post by
Squishalot
That's understandable - it's not cost effective for the companies to do the subbing themselves (because non-volunteers cost too much).
So, the question is, why hasn't the site gone out to the manga content creators, agreed to use volunteers, and pay a fair royalty to the content owners? I'm still theorising that too many people wouldn't want to pay the token fee.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
So, the question is, why hasn't the site gone out to the manga content creators, agreed to use volunteers, and pay a fair royalty to the content owners? I'm still theorising that too many people wouldn't want to pay the token fee.
There's probably that...and there's the fact that there are few hundred different translating groups out there, who do a wide variety of jobs on the subbing, some good some bad, and trying to find just one to then translate on the several dozen chapters that get released a week would be lot more expensive then just letting them use the site itself.
Post by
Squishalot
So why not have the site pay for the royalties then, and they can then host whatever they want? The issue is about making sure the content owners get something back from the service.
Post by
Adamsm
Because technically, the 'owners' already do, as it's people posting what they themselves have. The site is something like Youtube, in that you share your scans with everyone else(as there is no way to actually download chapters on that sight, beyond clicking on each individual page and saving it to your computer).
As for the manga-ka's well; most of them know about those type of sites and they don't raise a fuss about them for the most part; some groups do call on cease and desist of showing them, but not as many who try that with the anime subs out there.
Post by
Squishalot
Notice how I keep referring to 'content owners' as opposed to 'owners'. The people who bought the manga have ownership of the physical copy. They don't have ownership of the content.
And yes, I know they don't raise a fuss about them, but does that make it right?(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Notice how I keep referring to 'content owners' as opposed to 'owners'. The people who bought the manga have ownership of the physical copy. They don't have ownership of the content.True, but it's not really any different then trading movies or CD's with friends....it's just friends on a global scale, again, similar to YouTube.
And yes, I know they don't raise a fuss about them, but does that make it right?Unless the manga is taken down by a cease and desist order(which has happened on other sites, Mangafox is one of the few that will keep posting no matter what), I'd say they are fair game and could be up for whoever wants to view them and whoever wants to put in the time to actually do the scan and translation. Hard to tell what is right or not, considering the sales for the Jump mags over in Japan, which is where 90% of the scans come from when it comes to the weekly series.
Post by
gamerunknown
I think a more serious threat to the corporations are second hand stores. Those guys actually can sustain their trade with a profit and the artist never sees a penny. With pirating, the distributors usually assume the cost and they rarely, if ever, advertise.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
So was reading some things on TVTropes and ran across this on the Real Snog Theme Tune page:# WWE has used several "real" hard-rock and heavy-metal songs as theme tunes for their various programs, including Marilyn Manson's "The Beautiful People" and Papa Roach's "To Be Loved". When they don't use a real song, they often use a Thematic Theme Tune recorded by a popular artist (such as Smackdown's theme, "Rise Up" recorded by Drowning Pool, and Raw's former theme, "Across the Nation" by Union Underground)
* This was pretty much the case for most wrestler's entrance themes, until the music industry started cracking down on "unauthorized use" of copyrighted music and demanding royalties. After that, in all but a few exceptions (Ex. Hulk Hogan shelled out of his own pocket for the rights to "Voodoo Child"), organizations either switched to The Jimmy Hart Version of songs (Sting's late run WCW music was Metallica's "Seek And Destroy" with the serial numbers filed off), original tunes, or public domain ("Macho Man" Randy Savage's use of "Pomp And Circumstance").
o The biggest exception would be ECW, who continued to use real songs as entrance themes as part of their image as an "outlaw organization". Even their TNN/SpikeTV theme counted (White Zombie's "More Human Than Human"). Notice, that's the music industry and not the actual artists.
Post by
Squishalot
Seriously though while I'm being dramatic both are technically piracy under current law.
Charity shops aren't. You're selling your ownership rights to the physical copy of the book to another person, thus giving up your own ownership rights, unless there are restrictions in the terms of use about selling those rights (e.g. Blizzard doesn't allow you to sell your WoW account).
As for Adamsm's avatar, yes, I agree. Do I think content providers should be able to insist he doesn't use it? Yes. Do I think they want to insist he doesn't use it? Of course not - it's free advertising for them.
It's for that reason that I seriously wonder what people are on when they say SC2 commentators are going to be shut down by SOPA, or any other anti-piracy legislation.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
It's for that reason that I seriously wonder what people are on when they say SC2 commentators are going to be shut down by SOPA, or any other anti-piracy legislation.
Because people that host them wouldn't take the risk of being held accountable.
Or, you know, they'd get in touch with Blizz's marketing department and get approval in writing.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Actually, I would be expecting the commentators to get their approval from Blizzard. And yes, they (edit: websites) would and should be able to do that (edit: checking for content violations and raising them for issues), just like Google should be, at a minimum, proofing ads for criminal activity.
A bank will conduct background checks on you before you open up a mortgage. They insist on proof of identity with fairly rigorous restrictions before you open up a mere transaction account. They consistently monitor transactions and report suspicious ones to authorities for investigation. They can't just say "oh, the Mafia used our bank account, but it's too difficult for us to track, so we'll just sit and wait for you to tell us, and then we'll cancel the account".
It's time that web-centric corporations started taking on some accountability for themselves too. If that means that they can't provide a free service, then maybe it's time to change the business model.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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