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Can of Worms: Does telling a racist joke make you racist?

Post by Liquoid

Western society is inherently racist (and sexist and homophobic), what with straight white males considered the 'default'.

Stolen from another thread:

I'm not white, but I've seen every Wes Andersen movie and I just went to Coachella so I basically have a PhD in white people right now.

Basically, being white is like this: think of the most socially awkward situation you've ever been in, and make it last your entire life. That's being white. Everything is awkward for them. White people try so hard to not be awkward that they end up being awkward as all hell and honestly it's soooo cute. It's like watching a dog with socks on.

White people have a hard time being comfortable in the skin they're in. If a white person is proud of being white, they are labelled a racist. White people have to carry the burdens of all the &*!@#$y things their grandparents did to everyone else. This makes white people very sensitive to social situations because they are obsessed with not perpetuating negative stereotypes. Unfortunately this overt self awareness hinders them from doing activites that require an accute lack of $%^&s given (such as) dancing, playing sports, being cool, etc.

But even with all of this, I think that all of us have a little white in us. Sometimes there's days where you just wanna hop in your Honda civic, turn on some Smashing Pumpkins, and drive the speed limit. Sometimes I wanna go to Starbucks and overpay for bad coffee. Sometimes I wanna pretend I know what's going on during a David Lynch movie. Sometimes I wanna non ironically listen to Garth Brooks. Birkenstocks are comfortable as !@#$. NPR is the only news source you can really trust these days.

Just read perks of being a wallflower. It's like the white people manifesto. Lays everything out for you.

Post by ElhonnaDS

Snip

I am a white person, and I approve this joke- lol

Post by MyTie

I typed up the black version of that "joke". Then I realized I didn't want to be banned, so I stopped.

I don't think it's funny. I think it's stupid, and inaccurate.

Post by 952951

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Azazel

i see what you did there :D

Win.

Also, I think pregnant women shouldn't be allowed to smoke. They should be allowed to before and after pregnancy, but not during.

Post by fenomas

Post by Squishalot

I find it odd that so many people answered "No" to this. Telling a racist joke is pretty obviously a racist act - what else would it be?

So does somebody who does something a little bit racist every now and then necessarily count as "racist" full stop? Possibly not, but it must do to some extent, mustn't it?

I have to admit, I was surprised for the same reason that you are. Without singling Thror out on purpose, but his comment was on the front page and it summed things up pretty well:

I don't think so. By the same logic, telling sexist jokes would make one a sexist. I love sexist jokes and I am not a sexist.

It's the idea that "I think they're okay, and I don't want to think of myself as a racist, so therefore racist jokes musn't be racist". There's a logical fallacy there.

Post by 952951

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by fenomas

i guess making a racist joke is a act of racism by definition. i dont see it that way but lojically it seems that way.

Well, the question of whether a joke involving race is necessarily racist is a different question, and naturally there I'd say no. But if we're stipulating that the joke is racist, the rest of the question seems to sort of answer itself.

Post by EnigmaPunch

The was recently a TV show on the ABC in Australia (can't for the life of me remember the name at the moment) which had a studio audience, and put them all through a series of indivisual tests about race etc.

Of the ones who beleived they were not racist, something like 85% of them answered questions in a racially motivated manner, which was quite a shock to them.

Anyway, the Shrink who was running the tests said that he was not surprised by the resulty as he had seen that most people were in some way, shape, or form racist, but the majority of society made the choice not to display that opinion.

As to the question of if telling a racist joke, makes you racist - If you are telling a joke that singles out a race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc, then by definition you technically disciminating against that race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

So by technical definition, telling a racist joke, is a racist action.

Having said that, I have seen black comedians make jokes about black people. I have seen gay celebrities make jokes about gay topics.

I think it has a lot to do with the setting in which the jokes is told, and a combination of the person telling it, and also the audience that will recevie it.

Post by MyTie

I think the problem with this question is the very last word. It doesn't really have any quantification. Does it make you racist? If you know the difference between the races, and you see someone who is of a different race and acknowledge that difference in your mind, you are to at least some minute degree, racist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a non comatose person who is not racist. I think what is "understood" here is that the degree to which is being described her is a racist who is so racist as to be such to a negative and unacceptable degree. But, even that is hard to agree on.

So, I'd have to say that yes, doing X based on race makes you racist, whether that be tell a joke, start a fight, sit next to someone at a table, give someone a job, deny someone a job, smile, etc.

Post by Squishalot

The was recently a TV show on the ABC in Australia (can't for the life of me remember the name at the moment) which had a studio audience, and put them all through a series of indivisual tests about race etc.

Do you remember when it was on? Sounds interesting.

If you know the difference between the races, and you see someone who is of a different race and acknowledge that difference in your mind, you are to at least some minute degree, racist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a non comatose person who is not racist.

So aren't we stereotyping when we do that? ;)(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##

Post by MyTie

If you know the difference between the races, and you see someone who is of a different race and acknowledge that difference in your mind, you are to at least some minute degree, racist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a non comatose person who is not racist.

So aren't we stereotyping when we do that? ;)

How do you figure?

Post by Squishalot

So aren't we stereotyping when we do that? ;)

How do you figure?

We're making an assumption about what a person is based on the race that they are. That's what a racial stereotype is, when you boil it down.

Post by MyTie

We're making an assumption about what a person is based on the race that they are. That's what a racial stereotype is, when you boil it down.

I thought you were referring to the part of my post about the simple recognition of the race of an individual. I don't think it is stereotypical to say that a black person is black, but I think it might be racist, in some small fashion. This might be too much of a stretch, though. At one point, it might have been accurate, but in today's understanding, racism is almost always aligned with negativity.

Post by Squishalot

I thought you were referring to the part of my post about the simple recognition of the race of an individual. I don't think it is stereotypical to say that a black person is black, but I think it might be racist, in some small fashion. This might be too much of a stretch, though. At one point, it might have been accurate, but in today's understanding, racism is almost always aligned with negativity.

No, I don't think that's stereotypical either. I agree with what you're saying, generally speaking. The issue I take with a lot of the comments in this thread is that it seems to be that as long as we're being positive (i.e. humourous), even if we're pointing out a neutral/negative racial characteristic, then we're not racist in a colloquial sense. I'm not sure that's right.

Post by MyTie

I think it comes from social approval. It seems to me that the train of thought is: "Most people think it's funny, so it must be ok". I don't think people put a lot of analysis into their actions on their own, or, more accurately, as much as I think they should. I think people do whatever other people like, generally speaking. For instance, if there were a big push in society against racist jokes, and movie stars started speaking out against it, and news outlets focused put out fluff pieces about the pain racist jokes cause, and everyone's favorite rock star politician spoke out against it, and comedians stopped doing it, then there would (I feel) be more collective moral outrage on this board.

Edit: Disclaimer: I don't think everyone on this entire board conforms to these standards at all times, nor do I have supporting empirical evidence. This comes from personal experience and opinion.

Edit: Edit: Disclaimer: The previous disclaimer can be applied to most of my posts.

Post by EnigmaPunch

The was recently a TV show on the ABC in Australia (can't for the life of me remember the name at the moment) which had a studio audience, and put them all through a series of indivisual tests about race etc.

Do you remember when it was on? Sounds interesting.

The show is called Insite (sp?)

Guessing, but it was probably on 4-6 weeks ago'ish...lol

I don't think it is stereotypical to say that a black person is black, but I think it might be racist, in some small fashion.

On this point, Squish, do you remember the Andrew Johns saga from a few years ago when Timana Tahu walked out of the State of Origin camp because Johns called Greg Inglis a "Black C..."?

I always found this interesting, on the very point that Mytie makes above.

Of all the opinions on TV, Radio, Newspaper, and any other media, not one single person, I repeat not one, came out and said that Greg Inglis was not a "C...".

So does that mean we can read into that, that Greg Inglis is indeed a "C..."? Everyones problem was with that fact they he said "Black".

If that is the case, I have a newflash, Greg Inglis is black! Yeah, I know, shocker hey?

So do you realise that Andrew Johns got raked over the coals for telling the truth?

And it didn't become about race until Timana Tahu decided to make it about race?

Gives a completely different perspective on the race issue...

Post by Squishalot

Post by EnigmaPunch

Yeah, I remember - we raised this on page 3 of this thread, lol.

I think part of the issue is that they tie the two together. The phrase 'White C...' doesn't really get used. The implication is that all black people are C's, and that's why it blew up into a race thing. It's hard to untangle the two, IMO.

LOL I thought I had had this discussion somewhere here before. D'oh.

I guess then it comes back to who is delivering the comment, and the audience that it is delivered to.

If someone said to me, that guy is a "black C...", weill I can clearly see whether or not he is black, so the most obvious question to me, would be "So what makes you think he is a C...?"

But I guess everyone thinks differently.

Can of Worms: Does telling a racist joke make you racist?

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