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10.2.7
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Tank Gemming
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Post by
atomicwolf22
Ok I looked at the Mr.Robot site does anyone else get told to stack Solid Mastery gems in yellow and Mastery/Blue for Green?
The site is questionable on that for me. It's saying to change my gemming and drop close to 2500 health in favor of gaining 0.40% mastery.
@Op.
There is a 333 quest reward that you can get in twlight highlight. That makes a nice starter Mace till you can get a better tank one. Its one of the quest around were the Quartmaster is for Wildhammer.
Your talents for tanking are off. Do you want to pve tank or Pvp tank because you have talents for both in your current build.
Get the Ah Trinket that YJMark said to get. The Mark trinket is a dps trinket not a tank trinket even with the own use for mastery.
I would also suggest that you go with the Wildhammer Tabard so that you can get the Tank Helm from them at Exl. Rep.
Post by
Freezador
I am not sure I can follow your criticism on Mr. Robot. It just follows the stat weights given and if you value mastery and stamina itemization the exactly the same
Solid Ocean Sapphire
,
Fractured Amberjewel
and
Puissant Dream Emerald
are interchangeable.
By default Mr. Robot is set to slightly favour Mastery (Mastery = 100; Stamina = 66). So if you prefer using
Puissant Dream Emerald
setting Stamina weight to 66.666 might do the trick (or even better by multiplying all weights by 1.5 so you don't have to deal with rounding errors). You can also choose to go with a setup that favours Stamina by setting its value to 67. By playing around with these figures you can also see just how close together the different gemming philosophies are.
In the end there are several possible gearing strategies and which you will choose has a lot to do with your healers, the encounter you look at and personal taste. Also, 2500 health versus 0.4% mastery (is that 0.4 mastery or 0.4% block chance?)? Anyway, if that's the margin of error of a program it seems good enough for me. Well, at least for anything not trinkets.
Post by
Onijitsu
I take all advice from Mr. Robot and other sources with a grain of salt. I don't strictly just do what I'm told. But it's a good indicator of whether you're "doing it wrong" or not.
Post by
slasher0161
Ok I looked at the Mr.Robot site does anyone else get told to stack Solid Mastery gems in yellow and Mastery/Blue for Green?
The site is questionable on that for me. It's saying to change my gemming and drop close to 2500 health in favor of gaining 0.40% mastery.
@Op.
There is a 333 quest reward that you can get in twlight highlight. That makes a nice starter Mace till you can get a better tank one. Its one of the quest around were the Quartmaster is for Wildhammer.
Your talents for tanking are off. Do you want to pve tank or Pvp tank because you have talents for both in your current build.
Get the Ah Trinket that YJMark said to get. The Mark trinket is a dps trinket not a tank trinket even with the own use for mastery.
I would also suggest that you go with the Wildhammer Tabard so that you can get the Tank Helm from them at Exl. Rep.
Read my post back on the first page for the comparison between the two, if completely raid buffed you find your lacking health then your undergeared for the content plain and simple. The example I used was using sub par just about everything and sat at roughly 153k hp excluding trinkets raid buffed. Throw trinkets in the mix and thats another 11k health if you think you need that extra health padding (magic heavy fights, heavily intoxicated healers, general lack of faith in your healers, etc.)
Post by
mercutiouk
Pure mastery gems.
It's easilly the pallies best stat right up until 102.4%.
A larger health pool just enables healers to leave you alone a TINY bit longer between heals. You still cost them more mana to heal. That's mana they don't need to be wasting to keep your ass alive.
If instead you are taking LESS DAMAGE due to blocking more the incoming attacks you are causing your healers far less stress.
So long as you can take around 5 hits (with an averageish hit of around 30k) you don't NEED more health. It's wasted stats. The fact that almost every tank has a "you gain defensive stats when below X health as a percentage" mechanic is also wasted.
The simple fact is as you increase your defensive stats less of those hits make it through (either completely avoided or mitigated) which means rather than the 10k HPS a healer would need to keep you up naked, with 30% avoidance and 55% mitigation (about average in 359 gear if you are gearing correctly) you're looking at more like 5k HPS. That's a LOT of mana saved and time your healer can spend keeping other people alive.
Read the maintankadin "tanking stages" guide. It sets all this out rather nicely. Gives a ballpark figure for stamina depending on content. After this amount you go nuts on avoidance stats.
I WOULD of course suggest you keep multiple sets as any good tank would for those fights that have high magic damage but your main set should be VERY mastery heavy.
Post by
xavierpjg
Ok i know about the damage mitigations. I know about getting the rep gear. Starting heroics finally later on tonight. We'll see how it goes.
Post by
Onijitsu
Pure mastery gems.
It's easilly the pallies best stat right up until 102.4%.
A larger health pool just enables healers to leave you alone a TINY bit longer between heals. You still cost them more mana to heal. That's mana they don't need to be wasting to keep your ass alive.
If instead you are taking LESS DAMAGE due to blocking more the incoming attacks you are causing your healers far less stress.
Except that all of this applies only to physical damage. Magical damage can only be mitigated by certain cooldowns, trinkets, raid-buffs and more HP.
Which is why I use Mastery/Stam gems more often than I use pure Mastery gems. Even so, I'm at around 53% Block.
Post by
slasher0161
Pure mastery gems.
It's easilly the pallies best stat right up until 102.4%.
A larger health pool just enables healers to leave you alone a TINY bit longer between heals. You still cost them more mana to heal. That's mana they don't need to be wasting to keep your ass alive.
If instead you are taking LESS DAMAGE due to blocking more the incoming attacks you are causing your healers far less stress.
Except that all of this applies only to physical damage. Magical damage can only be mitigated by certain cooldowns, trinkets, raid-buffs and more HP.
Which is why I use Mastery/Stam gems more often than I use pure Mastery gems.
Refer to my post on the previous page, even using my knowledge which is 1 stamina = 10 hp (before all modifiers, I say this because it got questioned above and I still have no answer) you will still have more then enough stamina with a mastery focused gemming approach unless you are under geared for the content in which case illidan would like to have a chat with you, he has only been rambling on about it since patch 2.1
Post by
Fulgorater
....
unless you are under geared for the content in which case illidan would like to have a chat with you, he has only been rambling on about it since patch 2.1
lol
=D
Post by
Onijitsu
So if I, perchance, chose to enchant my rings for Str instead of Stam, you wouldn't find that amiss?
Post by
xavierpjg
seeing how the main issue here would be magic intensive fights, i'm gonna give a point of view from a combined opinion of my mage and my pally. I can only speak with heroics thus far. Magics on bosses should not be a problem because it is a single target fight and the paladin has word of glory and should be able to help heal himself. As for groups, the casters are ranged which means they should not move. these are either cc'ed or do what i do with my mage and get aggro on just the caster. Just take the caster out quickly. Mages can slow and use counterspell, I know hunters have a silence shot.
On raids i can see where there would be a prob. And on that note i would have to agree with more stamina simply because, from what i have read in the help threads, u pretty much have to just outlast the damage.
Post by
Onijitsu
I do have to make a small counterpoint to my argument, since I have played healers for some time now.
I hate
hate HATE
"meat shields".
.... And by this, I mean tanks which stack Stam, and their only form of mitigation is to have enough HP that healers must spam them to keep them up. You wouldn't believe how many "tanks" I've bumped into, in the Random Dungeon Finder, who apparently still think this is Wrath of the Lich King, when there was a debuff in ICC, and so most tanks reacted by stacking Stam. I knew a couple of tanks, though, who just stacked their mitigation so high (in addition to Stam) that they overcame this problem to some degree. Harder to do, without reforging, but they were my favorites to heal.
Therefore, I think a compromise is in order. Tanks have to be able to handle both physical and magical fights. Tanks which are only good for one purpose, and one purpose only, are one-trick ponies.
Post by
slasher0161
If you enchanted your rings with str instead of stam I would look at you strangely seeing that unlike mastery and stam which are reasonably evenly weighted thus the actual debate.
1 str = .25 parry rating
172 parry rating = 1% dodge before diminishing returns.
So lets go with the ring enchants being 60 str (I know their 40, 60 just looks like a fun number to work with) so they provide 15 parry rating per ring.
Thus 30 parry rating for 2 rings = .17% parry (Before diminishing returns)
Or you can take the 120 stam, go cheering off with your extra 1521 Hp
In the grand scheme neither is going to be ground breaking on its own, but every little bit helps to the whole. If you look at the example paladin I used it is midway through leveling tailoring for the mounts to get the 100 mounts achieve, is this subpar certainly. Is it game breaking hell no.
I'm not here to argue that stamina is your ex wife who took your house, kids and prized car. I'm here to say
Stamina is nice and undoubtedly a useful stat, however with the way raiding is at the moment it is perfectly viable to stack mastery and complete all content. This is because we are getting enough stamina on our gear just from enchants + blue and our meta gems. Now unless you are undergeared for the content (at current) this is true and therefore you have an option.
Option A: Stack stamina to create a little health pillow for your healers, this will give them a bit more time to react to heal you and allow you to take a tiny bit more magic damage. The downside is this health pillow will be at a direct cost of mastery one of our prime sources of mitigation, keep that in mind.
Option B: Stack mastery this allows us to aim for the magical block cap, this will overall reduce the damage you take by a fair amount and cause your healers to be able to be more friendly to their mana bars. The downside to this approach is that it involves your healers being a touch quicker to react and also becomes obsolete once you achieve 102.4% combat table coverage.
Funnily enough here neither way is particularly "wrong" both achieve a desired outcome if the other elements of a raid are correct. Its more a case of optimizing, if you never as a tank drop below say 20% health (which in a raid is something like 32,000 Hp) did you really need that extra 10k Hp kicker or could it have been better spent in reducing the damage you take?
Post by
xavierpjg
Well i finally tanked my first heroic, It was a fail but not my fault. Since when are the dps in heroics so weak? Nobody in the group was pullin over 8k. It was pathetic. Might have just been my dump luck. But i was able to tank everything fine the dps just wasn't killin fast enough. After someone pulled a side group on ozruk that got the healer killed i just left. I was tankin him 1/2 way in the tunnel. I couldn't believe it.
So i got discouraged and switched to my dps for a heroic dung. And wouldn't you know it i get a fail tank. Atleast everyone in this group was pullin 10k+ the tank just couldn't stay alive. I did a gs scan on him and it was 8600 but a closer look revealed he had no enchants, nothing reforged, and 1-2 pvp items equipped. Really wtf?
I can't win lol
Post by
atomicwolf22
Well i finally tanked my first heroic, It was a fail but not my fault. Since when are the dps in heroics so weak? Nobody in the group was pullin over 8k. It was pathetic. Might have just been my dump luck. But i was able to tank everything fine the dps just wasn't killin fast enough. After someone pulled a side group on ozruk that got the healer killed i just left. I was tankin him 1/2 way in the tunnel. I couldn't believe it.
So i got discouraged and switched to my dps for a heroic dung. And wouldn't you know it i get a fail tank. Atleast everyone in this group was pullin 10k+ the tank just couldn't stay alive. I did a gs scan on him and it was 8600 but a closer look revealed he had no enchants, nothing reforged, and 1-2 pvp items equipped. Really wtf?
I can't win lol
Wait did you say GS? Those are fighting words to some people here...
As for the dps thing its hard when people use the pvp gear to get themselfs into heroic's. Will be even worst when Blizz upgrade the IL on the Gear from 339 to 358 in 4.2. So Za/ZG groups are going to be fun.
I had a heroic SFK were the whole run 2 of the Dps a Mage and a ? never broke 7k dps. Not on Trash not on bosses. So they had a Arms Warrior pull 13k dps and there tank pulling 11k on trash (alot of Undead there) and 9k on Bosses.
If it takes more then a minute or two to kill a heroic Boss then you have a poor dps. I still don't know how to effectively Dps with my Boomkin But still put 10k-11k on Trash and 9k on bosses.
Post by
xavierpjg
lol yes i know the big thing on gs. However i still like the way it displays things rather than the default page one ppl. I just use it to see who is lazy on their gear.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
aggixx
More Hp doesnt mitigate anything.
Just poor wording. More HP increases your time to death which gives healers more time to react to spikes.
Post by
xavierpjg
Well fully runnin heroics now. Managed to get three chaos orbs and make myself this.
Hardened Elementium Hauberk
I'm just glad i thought ahead on my alch and had plenty of truegold already on hand.
With the exception of ppl being overzealous (grrrr) and headin in before i get a chance to pull and build aggro. Its been fairly easy. BRC, Grim Batol, and Vortex Pinnacle all cleared so far.
Still workin on building rep. But its gettin there. I was a little t'ed off though when i got earthen ring to revered then realized i didn't need that past honored for the 333 legs. Ohwell. Life goes on. WildHammer is almost revered.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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