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Tank Gemming
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Post by
xavierpjg
OK when you add sockets to bracers, gloves, or belt, it gives you a prismatic socket. Should these be used to just stack mastery gem(
Fractured Amberjewel
)? Or would one of the combo gems like parry+mastery or mastery plus stamina be more sufficent. Everything i've read said to stack mastery, but i wanna be sure.
Post by
atomicwolf22
Depends on your current gearing.
I personally don't gem pure Mastery gems. I use Mastery/Stam.
The extra health is nice to have vs. the same amount of avoidance.
Post by
Fetzie
I use stamina/mastery in blue and yellow, parry/stamina in red, one 101 stamina chimera eye in the tier gloves (blue socket and a +10 mas) and two 67 mastery chimera eyes in two of the prismatic sockets.
Post by
Gone
Are you at the 102% mitigation cap? no? then keep stacking mastery.
If you have a red or blue socket I go for a hybrid either mastery/stam or mastery/parry. If its a yellow or prismic gem just go pure mastery.
Post by
TheRealAzoth
As others have said use hybrid gems.
On a side note, quest your ass off in Twilight Highlands and grab a Wildhammer Clan tabard to boost rep and open up the dailies for even faster rep. There is a really nice helm
Crown of Wings
at Revered and BiS boots
Gryphon Rider's Boots
at Exalted.
Post by
Adrelia
You shouldn't stack all mastery, you should keep stamina high enough too.
If you're tanking a boss, who deals magic damage, you're screwed with your 65% block and 130k hp.
BUT, If you stack stamina and mastery (check Puissant Dream Emerald) you would do fine enough to tank the boss who deals magic damage.
I think you would do fine with only Puissant Dream Emeralds.. and if the socket bonus for red gem is good,
Fine Ember Topaz
If the blue socket bonus is good, go for
Defender's Demonseye
Thanks.
Post by
Gone
Ugh ok...
Do not stack stamina
, by the time your ilvl is ready for raids you will have enough stamina to do fine on magic fights, especialy if you pick up the tol barad trinket, that thing is way better for spike magic damage than any ammount of stamina gems, maby get one stamina trinket but do not gem for it, stack mastery unless your going for socket bonuses then get a mastery hybrid.
May I direct you to this thread
Post by
hatman555
Ryjacork,
You have a very strong opinion on mastery. That's fine, but you should be a little more neutral in your arguments. So instead of directing readers to a rant thread of yours, go over the facts of the two stats, and why players should focus on mastery or stamina.
Mastery vs. Stamina from my guide
Balancing Stats:
Larger health pools in Cata for tanks makes the 1 shot mechanics of WotLK a thing of the past. This has drastically depreciated the value of stamina. Why socket stamina when you could socket more avoidance and mitigation and still have a health pool that supports multiple hits? This is the reasoning that leads people to stacking avoidance and mitigation and avoiding stamina. While this is amazing for 5 mans and normal raiding, stamina still has its uses. More stamina means more time you can go without heals when facing constant unavoidable damage. Having more stamina also gives the healers a larger health buffer to deal with. This means they can prioritize you as a healing target, thus, leaving you without heals if others need it more.
Avoidance and Mitigation:
The less damage you take, the less you are going to require heals. This gemming strategy is now possible because of the naturally larger health pools in Cata that can still support incoming damage on a tank and be a suitable buffer for heals. You will require a larger health pool when doing harder content. Magic and unavoidable damage will affect you more because, proportionally, you have less health than other tanks socketing more Stamina.
TL;DR
Stamina is not king anymore.
Stamina does not reduce damage taken
Mastery only reduces physical damage taken
Feel comfortable with your health pool.
Use more or less stamina depending on the levels of damage you will take vs. heals you will receive.
Gems are not the only way to get stamina or mastery (see
flasks and food
)
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
Gone
Ryjacork,
You have a very strong opinion on mastery. That's fine, but you should be a little more neutral in your arguments. So instead of directing readers to a rant thread of yours, go over the facts of the two stats, and why players should focus on mastery or stamina.
We have stickies for a reason (you should know you wrote one), Im not gonna take the time to explain to every person asking for advice on the forums the pros and cons of stamina vs mastery. Im sorry but Adrelia is just wrong, if your ilvl is high enough to tank raids, then you should have enough stam just from your gear and flask, we have two stamina trinkets that drop off of pug acessable bosses, and the Tol Barad trinket, which as I said is better than any ammount of stamina on a fight with high magic spike damage.
Also perhaps I was a bit short, but Im tired of slamming my head against a brick wall on this issue, I already have a tank in my guild that stacks nothing but 60 stam gems, socket bonuses be damned.
Post by
322291
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xavierpjg
Ok thankyou for the advice, I am aware of how much stamina i should have in norms/dungs/raids/h raids. I know not to stack all stam. I'm still workin on gearing/repping in norms atm. With the steelskin flask and buff i come to 132k hp which is sufficient for norms. I know that by the time i get to heroics i should have >160. I've been trying my best to go along with this thread.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=180533
. Which is in the Helpful threads thingy.
Post by
atomicwolf22
Ok thankyou for the advice, I am aware of how much stamina i should have in norms/dungs/raids/h raids. I know not to stack all stam. I'm still workin on gearing/repping in norms atm. With the steelskin flask and buff i come to 132k hp which is sufficient for norms. I know that by the time i get to heroics i should have >160. I've been trying my best to go along with this thread.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=180533
. Which is in the Helpful threads thingy.
Wait. The health pools are they buff pools or unbuffed?
Really speaking I was tanking heroic with my pally with only 135k unbuffed health and only 1 stam trinket. I only have around 150k health unbuffed and I'm still gearing from Za/Zg and still don't have any of my teir gear.
Post by
slasher0161
So the big argument is that with mastery stacking we are lacking hp to tank bosses with magic damage?
I'm sorry but how much health does one really think they need to tank a boss these days with even semi competent healers,
"full pre-raid gear paladin"
stacking mastery, using a sub par stam trinket in one slot and average avoidance trinket in the other slot.
141,837 hp
12.48% dodge
11.87% parry
51.64% block
Changing to a stamina stacking approach yields the following
going from...
Blue socket:
Puissant Dream Emerald
---->
Solid Ocean Sapphire
Red socket:
Fine Ember Topaz
---->
Defender's Demonseye
Yellow socket:
Fractured Amberjewel
---->
Puissant Dream Emerald
Prismatic socket:
Fractured Amberjewel
---->
Solid Ocean Sapphire
Yielding the following changes: Per socket, pre-talents, buffs etc.
blue socket = (x4)
Red socket = (x3)
Yellow socket = (x3)
Prismatic socket = (x2)
Therefore total stat change is:
Non Jewel-crafter:
- 280 mastery rating
+ 420 stamina
Jewel-crafter:
- 361 mastery rating
+ 573 stamina
179 mastery ≈ 1 mastery = 2.25% block
1 stamina ≈ 1.2075 stamina after talents and buffs (for a paladin) = 12.075 hp
Therefore using the Jewel-crafter changes the following changes can be observed if changing to a stamina gemming approach.
4.5377% block
traded for a gain of
6918.975hp
This is using a very basic geared paladin as an example but lets take this further lets remove trinkets from the equation, and look at the paladin gear set as a whole without the trinkets. Then consider with 2 different sets of trinkets (a stamina set and an avoidance set).
Ignoring trinket slots removes 4910.5 hp from the unbuffed health, 1.43% block and roughly 1% parry
Therefore working with:
136,926 hp
12.48% dodge
10.87% parry
50.21% block
Now apply to this the following buffs
flask:
Flask of Steelskin
food:
Lavascale Minestrone
+stam:
Power Word: Fortitude
+ 5% stats:
+ str / agi:
Horn of Winter
(soon to be obsolete to plate tanks but still)
Pre-trinkets buffed stats look like so: Mastery gemming
{ + }*10 = buffed hp
140200.45 + 13572.3 = 153772.75 hp
153,772.75 hp
= 16,846.75hp + 136,926 hp
14.37%
= 1.89% + 12.48% dodge
11.68%
= 0.8188% + 10.87% parry
51.34%
= 1.13% + 50.21% block
Pre-trinkets buffed stats look like so: Stamina gemming
160,691.725 hp
14.37%
dodge
11.68%
parry
46.80%
block
Therefore the % gain on total health buffed neglecting trinkets is a lousy 4.5% for a loss of 4.53% block. This only gets more stupid as your gear improves or you include trinkets in the set. With a 346 and 359 stam trinket your looking at roughly another
10,976.175
hp bringing your total up to
164,748.925
Hp.
If 164,748 Hp isn't enough for every normal mode raid then you should reconsider the healers you are taking with you.
There is a reason we gem mastery, if you wish to know why read the freaking post.
All stat conversions taken from ej (if rounding was applied the figure was rounded down to be conservative).
Paladin profile used was my own with all gear acquirable pre-raid (except 359 trinket used in last example)
Post by
Onijitsu
I've honestly put Mastery/Stamina gems in my few red sockets as well, because I'm currently still very over-parried, even with reforging every bit of Parry I've got.
Post by
xavierpjg
Ok thankyou for the advice, I am aware of how much stamina i should have in norms/dungs/raids/h raids. I know not to stack all stam. I'm still workin on gearing/repping in norms atm. With the steelskin flask and buff i come to 132k hp which is sufficient for norms. I know that by the time i get to heroics i should have >160. I've been trying my best to go along with this thread.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=180533
. Which is in the Helpful threads thingy.
Wait. The health pools are they buff pools or unbuffed?
Really speaking I was tanking heroic with my pally with only 135k unbuffed health and only 1 stam trinket. I only have around 150k health unbuffed and I'm still gearing from Za/Zg and still don't have any of my teir gear.
currently unbuffed i'm at 123k. after buffs and flask i'm at 150k. Dodge 12.07 Parry 12.47 Block is at 34.77. Still going after the weps and trinks i needs however. Tankin norms is becoming ever more mind numbinly easy. but i'm like 5itl away from heroics. Don't really wanna start those untill everything is atleast 333 though if not 346.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Onijitsu
I've honestly put Mastery/Stamina gems in my few red sockets as well, because I'm currently still very over-parried, even with reforging every bit of Parry I've got.
Erm, its not possible to be overparried if you do things properly.
Plug yourself here and it should fix your misplaced reforges (i bet you reforged for parry and forgot about it, after upgrades came):
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear
I've used Mr. Robot, as well as Reforgenator. I've just got an egregiously large amout of Parry on my gear at the moment.
Post by
Fulgorater
...lots of cool maths... I always enjoy that sort of thing, thanks :)
currently unbuffed i'm at 123k. after buffs and flask i'm at 150k. Dodge 12.07 Parry 12.47 Block is at 34.77. Still going after the weps and trinks i needs however. Tankin norms is becoming ever more mind numbinly easy. but i'm like 5itl away from heroics. Don't really wanna start those untill everything is atleast 333 though if not 346.
Should look into a few more rep items and be sure to get those.
Also reforge off that hit into mastery! will help a lot.
I started doing Heroics with about that much health and didn't both with flasks at the time and had no problem. As long as you know the instance and how to handle the pulls (cc) you should be fine. Just run more regs to get rid of those greens. I'd say make sure all your items are above 318 before even entering a heroic despite what your average i lvl is. Those greens hurt mah eye ballz.
The JP sheild is VERY good (if you don't plan on doing the BS version, i like the JP more due to all the mitigation on it) and should be a prime pick up early
AND REFORGE THE HIT INTO MASTERY!
Post by
xavierpjg
Ok i reforged, lol. Picked up the troll boe bracers, and replaced both trinkets from one run of grim batol (after about 10 time with neither trink droppin) Only greens left i believe are helm (which is itl 333 makes no sense to me) and wep. I'm workin the tol borad dailies to get the wep from them and i'll get that jp shield after i replace the helm. Workin on getting the glyphs as soon as ah has some or our guild inscriber gets off vacation. And i also respecced.
Plannin on startin heroics once i get better shoulders.
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