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Christianity - The Horse that Refuses to Die
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Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
You can't prove something doesn't exist.
*sniff* do I smell circular reasoning?
Lol no but in all seriousness, its not fair for the burden to be on one side of the debate to have to prove their side, while the other is protected under "cant prove it anyway". I just dont like it when debates like this come down to a question like that because it dosnt lead anywhere. As I have said before there is no solid evidence either way, but I dont like it when skeptics implie that people of faith are as such due to some lack of logic, such as the gentleman a few posts back who implied that science used reasoning and religion worked off of faith. Faith and logic are not independant of each other.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
People should be proving he DOES.
No, they shouldn't. That is the point of God. If you proved he exists, it would invalidate the whole point of our existence.
Post by
Pwntiff
You can't prove something doesn't exist.
*sniff* do I smell circular reasoning?
Lol no but in all seriousness, its not fair for the burden to be on one side of the debate to have to prove their side, while the other is protected under "cant prove it anyway". I just dont like it when debates like this come down to a question like that because it dosnt lead anywhere.
What? I don't think you're aware of Skree's side of the argument.
As I said above, proving something doesn't exist requires knowing everything that does, has, and will exist, which is an impossible feat.
Post by
Pwntiff
People should be proving he DOES.
No, they shouldn't. That is the point of God. If you proved he exists, it would invalidate the whole point of our existence.
Lest He vanish in a puff of logic.
Post by
Monday
People should be proving he DOES.
No, they shouldn't. That is the point of God. If you proved he exists, it would invalidate the whole point of our existence.
Lest He vanish in a puff of logic.
I expected a little better from you.
Post by
Gone
You can't prove something doesn't exist.
*sniff* do I smell circular reasoning?
Lol no but in all seriousness, its not fair for the burden to be on one side of the debate to have to prove their side, while the other is protected under "cant prove it anyway". I just dont like it when debates like this come down to a question like that because it dosnt lead anywhere.
What? I don't think you're aware of Skree's side of the argument.
As I said above, proving something doesn't exist requires knowing everything that does, has, and will exist, which is an impossible feat.
I dont think you were aware of earlier posts, he and ex accused me of using circular ewasoning because in his exact words I used "a conculsion that supports the premise" and as ex said "any argument I make could simly be countered by the same point"
Its the same thing with what he just said about not being able to prove something dosnt exist in an argument about trying to prove one side of a debate or another.
And no the burden is not on any one side of any debate. I mean if you want to get really philisophical here you cant really prove something exists either, I mean they say the sky exists because we look up at it, but maby it dosnt, maby the entire world if the figment of some delusion and you really live in a world where there is no sky. Now obviously that one is a bit out there, and yes you cant really prove something dosnt exist, but you can give degrees of proof, and what im saying is that there is no more proof that God dosnt exist than that he does.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
People should be proving he DOES.
No, they shouldn't. That is the point of God. If you proved he exists, it would invalidate the whole point of our existence.
What? People use the "Prove he doesn't exist!" argument and then when I say "Prove he does!" they say, "NO, that's not what God's about!"? The point still stands that you can't prove God doesn't exist. But, you CAN, theoretically, prove he does. You just don't want to.
Or we simply dont have the tools to, cavemen couldnt prove that pluto exists, that dosnt mean its because it didnt or they didnt want to.
Post by
Monday
What? People use the "Prove he doesn't exist!" argument and then when I say "Prove he does!" they say, "NO, that's not what God's about!"?
I have yet to use that argument, and thus this doesn't apply to me (as I think both sides are a stupid way to go about it).
But, you CAN, theoretically, prove he does. You just don't want to.
Enlighten me.
That's like, if in a debate about, say, whether the earth is flat or not, one side says "There's no evidence that the earth is flat" and the other side says "Oh, well, you have to have faith."
Evidence and observations about whether the Earth is flat can be gathered incredibly easily. Evidence about whether God exists or not is not easily gathered.
and while I don't want to be hostile, that's pretty much what that is.
Could've fooled me.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
But he didn't say we didn't have the tools to, he said he didn't want to.
No, I didn't. I said that it would be completely pointless to attempt to prove Him to exist as it cannot be done (unless you believe the scriptures. But hey, as you don't, then there isn't any other way).
Post by
Gone
But he didn't say we didn't have the tools to, he said he didn't want to.
No, I didn't. I said that it would be completely pointless to attempt to prove Him to exist as it cannot be done (unless you believe the scriptures. But hey, as you don't, then there isn't any other way).
And that is the brick wall that this kind of debate inevitibly leads to.
Post by
Skreeran
And no the burden is not on any one side of any debate. I mean if you want to get really philisophical here you cant really prove something exists either, I mean they say the sky exists because we look up at it, but maby it dosnt, maby the entire world if the figment of some delusion and you really live in a world where there is no sky. Now obviously that one is a bit out there, and yes you cant really prove something dosnt exist, but you can give degrees of proof, and what im saying is that there is no more proof that God dosnt exist than that he does.I can be pretty reasonably sure the sky exists, thanks to evidence. Yes, my senses could be lying to me, but as far as I am able to perceive, the sky most certainly does exist.
Now prove to me that Elves do not live in the forests of Germany.
Post by
Monday
Now prove to me that Elves do not live in the forests of Germany.
Sweep the forests with infrared scanners, take satellite imagery and take video wherever you go (plus liberal use of pictures). Boom.
Sadly, God is on a slightly higher level than elves. Not comparable.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ExDementia
I was about to reply to Ryjacork, but you guys already did a damn fine job defending my point! /highfive
If you argue that for something to exist, it must be made, then you need a reason to excuse your deity from that same argument, or must also accept that said deity was made as well - which implies that the 'omnipotent' deity was created by an even more 'omnipotenter' deity (since coupled up with this is the argument that a complex creation requires a more complex creator), which means that the original deity wasn't really omnipotent to begin with.
If something is omnipotent than it could make something just as complex as itself, no?
So there is a god who created god?
(P.S. Ryja and others, please don't construe any of what's said as attacking on a personal level. These things often escalate to that, but I want to make it clear that this is just not the case :) at least not with me)
Post by
Gone
And no the burden is not on any one side of any debate. I mean if you want to get really philisophical here you cant really prove something exists either, I mean they say the sky exists because we look up at it, but maby it dosnt, maby the entire world if the figment of some delusion and you really live in a world where there is no sky. Now obviously that one is a bit out there, and yes you cant really prove something dosnt exist, but you can give degrees of proof, and what im saying is that there is no more proof that God dosnt exist than that he does.I can be pretty reasonably sure the sky exists, thanks to evidence. Yes, my senses could be lying to me, but as far as I am able to perceive, the sky most certainly does exist.
Now prove to me that Elves do not live in the forests of Germany.
I think there is a lot more evidence and likleyhood of God than Elves living in the forrest in Germany. Any argument I make can obviously be countered, but no more than I can counter your argument by nit picking at it, so thats pointless.
Post by
107106
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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