This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please
enable JavaScript
in your browser.
Live
PTR
Beta
Classic
Blizzard is counter productive;contradict themselves
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xaratherus
This is a piece of rhetorical blather, probably parroted from some entry-level Critical Thinking course or lame HS essay workshop. It's totally inappropriate because I did indeed address your views.
The evidence is my own experience. I'm fairly sure I've tanked more fivemans than everyone else in this thread combined (that's not a boast, it's a simple statement of fact) and the issues you describe don't exist unless the tank is incompetent. I've also done many as DPS, and I know well how frustrating a slow tank is.
And this is evidence as to why very, very few people take you seriously, which I can state from my own experience. Since you've already resorted to ad hominems, I'll respond in kind and call you a 'self-important twat with delusions of grandeur'.
With that, I'm done responding to you. Wowhead would be a better place if everyone followed that same idea.
Post by
Rishana
So, am I to take it that "good tanks" never use line-of-sight pulls? That they never pulls packs away from potential adds? That "good tanks" always just charge in from pack to pack regardless of whether the healer/ranged might want a couple of seconds to loot their mobs or *gasp* skin a skin-able mob?
Good luck with that come Cataclysm.
And my healer/skinner already hates you.
Post by
DeeJerz
Why haven't I.. because I haven't even started to attack yet the DPS thinks the tank will get it off me. Nope won't happen
That's your group telling you that you are too slow. You are the reason people put tanks on the ignore list. Blah blah blah, whine, whine. whine, qq more please.
Did you ever stop and look around and see other tanks having ZERO threat issues? They must be magic right? No, that just means that they are doing it right and you are so full of fail.
Stop the QQ, and LEARN how to tank dude. My dps dropped a bit for AoE, but I still don't have any aggro issues. Single target or aoe, they are still on me like glue. Only time I have any issues is if the rogues and hunters MD and TotT the fury warrior just to get him killed. 9/10 times though I can still taunt.
Edit: My only complaint was that I didn't have enough points left to put into
Pursuit of Justice
. I need to pull FASTER!
That's my group telling me that they have no PATIENCE! Thanks for verifying, and don't speculate on how I tank thank you very much.
Post by
Lorkin
That's my group telling me that they have no PATIENCE! Thanks for verifying, and don't speculate on how I tank thank you very much.
Patience for what? Heroics are STILL pull fests, have anyways been, will always be for WotLK. Cata may change that but we'll see. And I don't really need to speculate on how you tank. I have a good idea from all your QQ'ing.
Post by
DeeJerz
That's my group telling me that they have no PATIENCE! Thanks for verifying, and don't speculate on how I tank thank you very much.
Patience for what? Heroics are STILL pull fests, have anyways been, will always be for WotLK. Cata may change that but we'll see. And I don't really need to speculate on how you tank. I have a good idea from all your QQ'ing.
Wow, that's what I would expect from a 2 year old. Learn to read, learn to follow a conversation. I wasn't QQing as much as anyone would like to say it. I have 0 threat problems like I said do not speculate like a moron.
PATIENCE kiddo, PATIENCE. If you don't know what that means look it up read a thing or two about it. It's a video game..
Post by
Lorkin
So, am I to take it that "good tanks" never use line-of-sight pulls? That they never pulls packs away from potential adds? That "good tanks" always just charge in from pack to pack regardless of whether the healer/ranged might want a couple of seconds to loot their mobs or *gasp* skin a skin-able mob?
Good luck with that come Cataclysm.
And my healer/skinner already hates you.
LoS isn't needed in WotLK Heroics. Aside from 3-4 pulls in ICC, where do you need LoS pulls? And as a healer you should be looting while people are killing off mobs. You might need a second or two between pulls, but that's it. A skinner healer is fail imo, just too much downtime.
What do you gain as a skinner as a healer anyways? Just curious your prof choice.
Only time I stall pulls on my tank is if the healer is below 60% mana and needs a mana break. When I heal, I have a hard enough time telling the tank to keep going. What are they waiting for, I'm at full mana. I often have to PW:Shield them to let them know to keep going. Are you admiring the graphics in the cave or something, GO!
Post by
Thanodius
That "good tanks" always just charge in from pack to pack regardless of whether the healer/ranged might want a couple of seconds to loot their mobs or *gasp* skin a skin-able mob?
Real
raiders don't loot
yard trash
, you silly person you. (Unless they're farming the
Battered Hilt
, of course...)
/sarcasm off
Post by
Lorkin
/Sigh
if anything 4.0.1 buffed tank damage
That's bull.
Uh...what? Last few days, while randoming on my DK, I've seen the tanks at 2-3rd on the DPS charts over all, even with things like Mages and Warlocks in the groups.
Your experiences are not equal to my own, hence the "that's bull" comment that I posted.
DPSers pulling aggro in a fiveman is a tank problem. Not a tank gear problem. Not a DPS problem. The tank needs to play his character better. He needs to put out more threat and react more quickly.
DPS pulling threat is a Tanks fault? Look at that again.... read it over again..... now try to understand where this is going.... Sadly you are mistaken here.
So you are telling me.... DPS going all out before the tank has established ANY THREAT is the tanks fault. Ok good job at looking stupid. It's not a Tanks fault for example that a Hunter does not know how to use Misdirection, again good job at looking stupid.
Look at it this way:
Why haven't you established threat yet?
And why do you need a hunter to establish threat for you?
Why haven't I.. because I haven't even started to attack yet the DPS thinks the tank will get it off me. Nope won't happen
So from what you said, tell me where you were NOT QQ'ing about threat?
Post by
DeeJerz
/Sigh
if anything 4.0.1 buffed tank damage
That's bull.
Uh...what? Last few days, while randoming on my DK, I've seen the tanks at 2-3rd on the DPS charts over all, even with things like Mages and Warlocks in the groups.
Your experiences are not equal to my own, hence the "that's bull" comment that I posted.
DPSers pulling aggro in a fiveman is a tank problem. Not a tank gear problem. Not a DPS problem. The tank needs to play his character better. He needs to put out more threat and react more quickly.
DPS pulling threat is a Tanks fault? Look at that again.... read it over again..... now try to understand where this is going.... Sadly you are mistaken here.
So you are telling me.... DPS going all out before the tank has established ANY THREAT is the tanks fault. Ok good job at looking stupid. It's not a Tanks fault for example that a Hunter does not know how to use Misdirection, again good job at looking stupid.
Look at it this way:
Why haven't you established threat yet?
And why do you need a hunter to establish threat for you?
Why haven't I.. because I haven't even started to attack yet the DPS thinks the tank will get it off me. Nope won't happen
So from what you said, tell me where you were NOT QQ'ing about threat?
What did I say? Do you have a reading problem or an understanding problem hmm?
Post by
xaratherus
The only productive thing to come from this thread is the quote pyramids above, which will hopefully lead to its lock.
Post by
298296
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
What did I say? Do you have a reading problem or an understanding problem hmm?
Just trying to find out if you are a troll or really that full of fail.
Post by
DeeJerz
What did I say? Do you have a reading problem or an understanding problem hmm?
Just trying to find out if you are a troll or really that full of fail.
Again, have you seen me tank? No I didn't think so kid, stop speculating.
Post by
Lorkin
Again, have you seen me tank?
God I hope not.
You're right though, the best tanks in the game QQ as much as you BECAUSE they seem to have the same tanking issues as you do. /rollseyes
Post by
DeeJerz
Again, have you seen me tank?
God I hope not.
You're right though, the best tanks in the game QQ as much as you BECAUSE they seem to have the same tanking issues as you do. /rollseyes
I have no issues... try again?
Post by
Rishana
LoS isn't needed in WotLK Heroics. Aside from 3-4 pulls in ICC, where do you need LoS pulls? And as a healer you should be looting while people are killing off mobs. You might need a second or two between pulls, but that's it. A skinner healer is fail imo, just too much downtime.
What do you gain as a skinner as a healer anyways? Just curious your prof choice.
Only time I stall pulls on my tank is if the healer is below 60% mana and needs a mana break. When I heal, I have a hard enough time telling the tank to keep going. What are they waiting for, I'm at full mana. I often have to PW:Shield them to let them know to keep going. Are you admiring the graphics in the cave or something, GO!
LoS was needed in some heroic runs back when we were all in greens and quest blues, but sure . . . it isn't *needed* now unless someone is leveling a tank alt. And maybe not even then.
Of course, we're all learning really bad habits with the whole "charge in without using CC or LoS or anything and just nuke everything down" that is going to bite us in our collective behinds soon. Or so I am lead to believe from reports from the beta. If the tank, for whatever reason, decides (s)he wants to practice LoS pulls, and the DPS decide to zerg the mobs while the pack in in-transit, you're looking at a lot of dead DPS.
RE: skinning: Honestly, what do I gain from ANY profession unless I want to go JC/blacksmith to min-max my gems? Professions are just for fun. As it is, I have a Miner/JC toon, an Herb/Alchemy one, a Tailor/Enchanter, and my shaman happens to be my Skinner/Leatherworker. As a skinner, it offends me to leave dead dragons lying around when I could turn them into leather/scales (and earn some extra cash when I sell the mats on the AH), and it annoys me when people are so impatient that they run around corners out of healing LoS while I'm cleaning up.
If we're being elitist here, let me pshaw at waiting for a healer at 60% mana. I don't stop to drink unless I'm down to like 30%, but I don't think I can get below 60% in a heroic any more unless I'm so bored I'm DPSing half the time.
Real raiders don't loot yard trash, you silly person you. (Unless they're farming the Battered Hilt, of course...)
/sarcasm off
But but but ... some of that trash sells for several gold each! Why shouldn't a dungeon run be as profitable as possible?
^_^
Post by
Porcell
Some concrete advice:
A tank should have situational awareness. This pertains not merely to watching for pats and seeing what the mobs he's tanking are doing, or the raidwide mechanics of encounters, but also thinking about his next move. When the trash pack is low on health the tank should already be aware of the mobs around him and decide what he's going to pull next.
When he's about to pull a mob or a trash pack, he should have firmly in mind where he is going and how he will get there - it should be like visualizing waypoints in Starcraft. He should make a beeline to his desired position, and move without hesitation.
When he starts the pull, he should have a clear plan of action - how he will get threat on each mob, how he will use his stuns and CDs, how he will get the mobs to bunch up using positioning and silences. He should have a sense of how hard he and the DPS are hitting the mobs and instinctively switch to a mob that he has less threat on, before it gets pulled. He should see which mobs are getting hit by everything he's doing, and which mobs are getting hit by only some of his AoE because they're on the edge of the group, or weren't positioned in range of every cleave ability.
That is how it is done.
The above is EXACTLY what makes a great tank. It is impossible to disagree with any of the above. If you don't have the above, no amount of gear, talents, or glyphs will fix you.
If you are a tank and have 3 DPS and a Healer standing on top of you, and you are out of combat, you are doing it wrong.
The evidence is my own experience. I'm fairly sure I've tanked more fivemans than everyone else in this thread combined (that's not a boast, it's a simple statement of fact) and the issues you describe don't exist unless the tank is incompetent. I've also done many as DPS, and I know well how frustrating a slow tank is.
5759 WotLK 5-player bosses
1483 5-mans completed
929 WotLK 10-player bosses
126 10-mans completed
1168 WotLK 25-player bosses
170 25-mans completed
Yup, certainly got me beat.
1942 5-man bosses
526 5-mans completed
495 10-man bosses
63 10-mans completed
655 25-man bosses
82 25-mans completed
You got me doubled on raids, tripled on instances. Might make the "combined" claim a little tight though.
Post by
Lorkin
I know cata will bring back CC and all that fun stuff. What I hope it does NOT bring back are the 5 mans that take more than 30-45 mins. I remember for a full Mara clear, it would take up to an hour or more. Do people actually enjoy clearing trash THAT much?
I mean I get why they are doing it and where they are headed. But I do not enjoy doing tedious packs and packs of mobs over and over again. ToC was a perfect 5 man imo (minus the last cutscene) and places like AN were awsome too. Few trash that you had to know how to pull correctly, and right to the bosses. Short and sweet.
Yeah profs are fun, but I just didn't get healer + skinning. Alchemy and Engineering have provided me tons of fun and useful stuff, even JCing.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
© 2021 Fanbyte
