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The first patch I've missed... it's weird.

Post by seebs

I'm one of the people who quit over the Real ID thing -- not just the forum thing, but Blizzard lying about various aspects of Real ID, and ignoring people who want to be able to keep in touch with friends without using their legal names. I am not okay with an added service that is available only to some people, especially since it's disproportionately unappealing to specific groups, such as people with identifiably-ethnic names. I don't know for sure the real rationale for the real-names-only thing, but I'm guessing it's a deal with Facebook, and as such, Blizzard can't change it -- at least, not without major contractual problems. So I guess I'm done permanently.

I'd been playing since 1.8.3 or so. I've watched every patch since then, I've read the patch notes... And this is the first time, in all that time, that I haven't been planning what to do about them. And it's weird. I am still interested in WoW. The changes sound great, and I'm really happy to see them... But they don't really affect me, nor will they any time soon it looks. And it's weird to notice how much I care anyway. I guess four or five years of a hobby gives you a sort of emotional bond with it, even when you don't have the time or inclination to pursue it.

I don't actually know that I had a specific point in mind with this thread, or a topic for discussion -- I just thought it was interesting to note that, even though I haven't logged into WoW in months, and don't actually have a copy installed on any of my computers, I'm still really curious as to how the new talent trees worked out. Blizzard really has done a wonderful job of creating an immersive fantasy world; I just wish they'd kept it as a pure fantasy world.

Post by Eccentrica

You would probably be best served to sever ties completely. I am not implying that posts are unwelcome, but WoW is so addicting, that if you don't want to play, you should probably eschew everything related to it.

Browsing related forums and sites after quitting WoW is akin to quitting smoking and browsing cigar shops. Nothing good is going to come of it.

I realize you didn't ask for opinions, but mine is gently offered anyway.

Post by Lorkin

Not exactly sure what your issue with RealID is, just don't use that feature if you want to remain hidden. It's not like you have to accept friends invites for facebook, you could just have an empty friend's list.

As for WoW, Eccentrica summed it up perfectly. Wow is very addictive and all the websites do is draw you back in. It's one thing to read up on the changes and stuff, but that's only going to make you want to play again.

If you are happy about cutting the cord for Wow then I would suggest you get off the forum and not read or touch another Wow related article or website. If you don't care about coming back or not, read up on the RealID thing as they did back down from making the forum post change that I think you were hinting at. Either case RealID isn't a reason to not use any of Blizzard's products.

Post by Murrdurr

I didnt know I stumbled to a blog site....oh wait....

And its funny how you quit because of RealID, its not like your forced to use it in any way shape or form. Nobody cares about the fuss that was a few months ago when they planned but didnt go through with RealID on the forums either.

Post by seebs

Not exactly sure what your issue with RealID is, just don't use that feature if you want to remain hidden.

My issue is that I would love to be able to use the feature, and so would several of my friends -- but some of them can't because of the "legal name" thing. That, and I really don't like it when people blatantly lie to me.

Basically, a highly-desirable feature has been added to the game, but implemented in a way that denies many people access to it. Other games and gaming network things let you use a nick name. If Real ID used a nickname, I'd still be playing WoW. But instead, it's implemented so that people who have reason not to use their legal name are denied access to the feature. That's a sucky thing to do.

Murrdurr: Yeah, uhm, the complaint isn't that I'm forced to use it, it's that I would love to be able to use it, and I could if they implemented the same basic functionality that everyone else does.

Post by monopoman

Well the way you complain about it seems that you are furious that you can't use it so you canceled your account.

Every set of features in the game has its downside the way you complain is similar to such,

Man why does H LK 25 and H RS 25 have the best gear! I don't have the group with enough skill or the time to waste attempting those fights for tons of hours just to beat them.

So really RealID doesn't work for you then don't use it, Blizzard is not responsible to make every feature fit everyone. The Pet Store pisses some people off and others find it a waste of money but a lot of people love it.

Every change that happens to WoW at least one person will complain this is the facts of life. They also actually caved in on RealID and did not implement it on the official fourms.

Post by georgelopes

this may have been me dreaming this but I do recall something in the last few days saying that blizzard had set an option in your account management page making it so you showed your name only to friends or not showing your name at all.

Post by 302110

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Lorkin

What's weird is the lame excuses you make about a feature of the game that isn't even a core mechanic.

Either just have your buddies (who are afraid to show you their real names? wtf?) only on your friends list not your RealID list.

OR have them change their account name to a BS name as Sucura suggested.

That, or create a new account with a bull*!@# name and transfer your chars over

You're sounding so emo and it's all qq from your end for nothing.

Post by RottweilerCP

I really don't get the point of complaints like this about RealID. Do you really have "friends" that you don't want to share your legal name with? Guess what, they're not really your friend. Using RealID doesn't force you to share your legal name with anyone that you don't want to. I have a bunch of guildies that facebooked me well before RealID came out so I had no problem adding them to RealID. I had a couple real life friends on different servers that I didn't talk to online and RealID made that possible.

There are millions of people playing WoW, there is no way in the world that every single one of them will be completely satisfied with any one thing Blizzard chooses to do. But I would guarantee that if blizzard would lose more players than it would gain they wouldn't release a feature, or if they did they'd fix it quickly. So trust me, you are in the vast minority on this one.

If Blizzard had never came out with realID you'd still be playing. You're not forced to use it and can still play the game like it's not there at all. But because they came out with it and you would like to use it, but not the way they implemented it you quit. And you think that's valid reasoning? Not to be too rude, but I think you may have other issues.

Post by Sephrain

Post by Lorkin

Post by seebs

I really don't get the point of complaints like this about RealID. Do you really have "friends" that you don't want to share your legal name with? Guess what, they're not really your friend.

It's not just "share", but "use". No one calls me by my legal name. Not my spouse, not my coworkers. Nobody. I don't use that name for much of anything but credit cards and taxes.

One of my WoW friends is transgendered. He does not necessarily want to use his current legal name when talking to people. Are they really super close friends, the kind of friends that he'd show his genitals to? No. Are they friends he'd want to keep in touch with? Yes.

Using RealID doesn't force you to share your legal name with anyone that you don't want to.

But it forces you to share your legal name with anyone you want to keep in touch with across servers or factions. In other games, on PSN, on Xbox Live, on Steam, in City of Heroes, you name it -- everyone else provides this functionality even for people you don't want to use your legal name with.

There are millions of people playing WoW, there is no way in the world that every single one of them will be completely satisfied with any one thing Blizzard chooses to do. But I would guarantee that if blizzard would lose more players than it would gain they wouldn't release a feature, or if they did they'd fix it quickly. So trust me, you are in the vast minority on this one.

I'm probably in the minority, but... No one needs real names. There are no players who would be horribly upset if Real ID allowed them to use a nickname -- if they really wanted to use real names, they'd just pick their real name as a nickname.

So, yes. I'm in the minority.

And one of the things that has stuck with me across the last couple of decades is that when people do something that's great for most people, and not available to a minority, that's usually a sign that they're not being very nice.

If Blizzard had never came out with realID you'd still be playing.

Yes.

You're not forced to use it and can still play the game like it's not there at all. But because they came out with it and you would like to use it, but not the way they implemented it you quit. And you think that's valid reasoning?

Yes.

Okay, thought experiment.

Imagine that Blizzard came out with Real ID, and said that, as a matter of corporate policy, they'd decided that it would be available only to people with Anglo-saxon names. So, if your name sounds Arabic or Chinese or Mexican, you simply aren't allowed to use Real ID.

You'd see the problem there, right? You can understand thinking that it's wrong to exclude a minority from a service? You can imagine why a white person might refuse to eat at a restaurant with a sign saying "No Colored People", even though they're allowed to eat in that restaurant if they want to, right?

The mandate to use real names, while it's not an absolute ban, creates a very strong bias in the service, in that it is disproportionately likely that certain people can't use it. It does so for no good reason. Making the service unfriendly to those users is not making it better for other people. It's not a fundamental technical problem (like trying to make a video game work for the blind, which would be pretty hard to do). It's just that they don't care about those users because, as you note, they're a minority.

I am not okay with supporting people who feel comfortable dismissing the concerns of minorities.

Post by seebs

Fake name for RealID.
Problem solved. If you call Blizz support, they usually don't care if you want to change the name on your account. I hear of a guy who had his RealID changed to Lizzie McGuire for the $%^&s and gigs.

This is an interesting theory, however, Blizzard support reps have repeatedly stated that they will not allow any name change on an account without documentation showing that an actual legal name change happened.

But... Even granting that something like this could work, there's still the underlying problem: I don't feel like I should be supporting Blizzard in a policy which is clearly giving preferential treatment to some people over others like that.

Post by GravenTerenas

You're not being excluded on the basis of your name, you are choosing to exclude yourself. It's your decision, not something they are doing to pick on you as a minority.

This whole argument is moot anyway; as people have said you can just change the name associated with your account, though you seem to far prefer whining.

Post by Lorkin

There's so many ways around RealID it's not even funny. As mentioned, changing names. Just adding their character to your friend's list. You can use an IM service (trillion for example) to keep in touch with people across servers or even people in other non Blizzard games, so that shouldn't stop you. You're whining that Blizz didn't perfectly accommodate you, but the truth is that you feel neglected about a feature that isn't even mandatory to play the game.

It's like if I quit WoW because I didn't like the abusement of panda's as vanity pets or something. I'm protesting against the company for something they designed in game. What's the point? I'd just choose NOT to get the pet ingame. You can choose not to use RealID.

From these two lines:

I am not okay with supporting people who feel comfortable dismissing the concerns of minorities.

I don't feel like I should be supporting Blizzard in a policy which is clearly giving preferential treatment to some people over others like that.

I think if you are going to truely protest this issue, you shouldn't touch another Blizzard product ever again. /end thread.

Post by seebs

Well, as of now, that's pretty much the case -- didn't even look at SCII, haven't renewed any of my subs, etcetera. If Blizzard were to fix this, I might come back. Otherwise, I just don't think so. So, yes, the likely thing would be not to touch their products again.

Again... They don't let you change names. Adding a character to a friends list doesn't give you the cross-server/cross-faction chat. If you really want to keep in touch with another player across their alts and yours, your only viable option is Real ID or something entirely outside the game.

I'm not saying Blizzard didn't "perfectly" accommodate me. I'm saying that there are thousands of users who are unwilling or unable to use the service until it has nicknames as an option, millions who would prefer nicknames, and that Blizzard has consistently and completely ignored that. Which is sufficiently atypical for Blizzard that I'm assuming it's a contractual obligation, presumably part of the facebook deal.

Yes, it's an optional feature. It's a really nice feature that nearly everyone would like to use, except for a key design decision that makes it unpleasant at best for a number of people. Sure, they're a "minority". So what? It's not as though anything would have been taken away from anyone, ever, if they'd implemented Real ID using a nickname. And again, providing special benefits to some people but not others is a sort of thing that, in general, our culture usually frowns upon.

as people have said you can just change the name associated with your account

As blue posters have said, NO YOU CAN'T. It is not permitted. They won't let you. You can call and ask, but they won't do it. I've been told repeatedly that you can't change your name without proof of a legal name change. I'm sort of assuming they weren't just lying about that.

But you're missing the point, again. Why should I have to change my account name, even if I could? Why are they tying in-game social contacts to an out-of-game name that the player might not want to use?

I guess this thread reminded me of the other thing I don't miss about WoW. The majority of the player base are militantly opposed to anything that could be mistaken for thinking about other people. If it's okay for you, anyone it's not okay for is "just whining".

Post by RottweilerCP

It's not just "share", but "use". No one calls me by my legal name. Not my spouse, not my coworkers. Nobody. I don't use that name for much of anything but credit cards and taxes.

OK, you've gone a little far here. Anybody that you e-mail sees whatever name you used when setting up your e-mail. This should be the same name you use to set up WoW and hence the name shared. My legal name is Theodore. I go by Ted and even have some credit cards with Ted. In wow my RealID says Ted. So if you don't regularly use your legal name RealID does not impact you there. Same thing with your transgender friend. They have a name that people they don't show their genitals to call them. This is what should be used on a regular basis and in RealID. So, bad argument.

But it forces you to share your legal name with anyone you want to keep in touch with across servers or factions. In other games, on PSN, on Xbox Live, on Steam, in City of Heroes, you name it -- everyone else provides this functionality even for people you don't want to use your legal name with.

I don't disagree that would be a better option, I'm just saying you quit a game because they didn't implement an optional feature the way you wanted.

I'm probably in the minority, but... No one needs real names. There are no players who would be horribly upset if Real ID allowed them to use a nickname -- if they really wanted to use real names, they'd just pick their real name as a nickname.

So, yes. I'm in the minority.

And one of the things that has stuck with me across the last couple of decades is that when people do something that's great for most people, and not available to a minority, that's usually a sign that they're not being very nice.

Not available, yes, but that's not the case. RealID is available to everyone, you are in the minority for choosing not to use it.

Okay, thought experiment.

Imagine that Blizzard came out with Real ID, and said that, as a matter of corporate policy, they'd decided that it would be available only to people with Anglo-saxon names. So, if your name sounds Arabic or Chinese or Mexican, you simply aren't allowed to use Real ID.

You'd see the problem there, right? You can understand thinking that it's wrong to exclude a minority from a service? You can imagine why a white person might refuse to eat at a restaurant with a sign saying "No Colored People", even though they're allowed to eat in that restaurant if they want to, right?

The mandate to use real names, while it's not an absolute ban, creates a very strong bias in the service, in that it is disproportionately likely that certain people can't use it. It does so for no good reason. Making the service unfriendly to those users is not making it better for other people. It's not a fundamental technical problem (like trying to make a video game work for the blind, which would be pretty hard to do). It's just that they don't care about those users because, as you note, they're a minority.

I am not okay with supporting people who feel comfortable dismissing the concerns of minorities.

Oh, now I get it. You're Nucking Futs! How you could possible compare RealID to racism is beyond me and obviously there is nothing else for me to say.

Post by Mozblue

I really don't get what your issue is the point of RealID is that you only add friends to it that are REAL friends from your REAL life so they're going to know you REAL name and ethnicity anyway.

Post by seebs

OK, you've gone a little far here. Anybody that you e-mail sees whatever name you used when setting up your e-mail.

Uh, no, they see whatever name I put in my mail client. There is no name associated with my email address at all. There's no "real name" there. It's just an email address.

This should be the same name you use to set up WoW and hence the name shared.

Why? I use my legal name with anything that has a credit card attached, but I don't use it for much of anything else. If I'm filling out a form and I have to put in a credit card, I fill it out using the name on that card. (Confusingly, I actually have credt cards in two different names, so I use different names at different places.)

Same thing with your transgender friend. They have a name that people they don't show their genitals to call them. This is what should be used on a regular basis and in RealID. So, bad argument.

Except that Real ID doesn't show "the name you use on a regular basis". It shows the name that was on your credit card when you signed up five years ago, when Blizzard promised never to show that name to anyone else.

Seriously, if Real ID let you pick whatever name you wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation -- but then, that'd be because they implemented nicknames.

I don't disagree that would be a better option, I'm just saying you quit a game because they didn't implement an optional feature the way you wanted.

Specifically, because despite being told multiple times that the way they implemented it made it hostile to a large number of people (a minority of 12 million is still a large number of people), they've refused to even talk about it.

Oh, now I get it. You're Nucking Futs! How you could possible compare RealID to racism is beyond me and obviously there is nothing else for me to say.

Here's how I could compare it to racism:

It's a thing which has different effects on people who have ethnically-identifying names. It's a thing which has different effects on people whose names have a gender mismatch than it does on people who don't -- meaning it is very likely to affect transgendered people differently from cisgendered people.

Heck, leave the gender and such out of it. One of my friends was abused as a child. She freaks out if you call her by her legal name. She uses it for formal stuff, like credit cards, but NEVER uses it with friends -- most of her friends don't even know her legal name. But her credit cards are in that name, and so's her ID, so that's what Blizzard would have if she had a WoW account...

See, that's the thing. The assumption that people like to be called by the name they would use when signing up for a paid service is not a sane assumption. But it's an assumption which is usually okay for men with white-sounding names, and not so often okay for people with female-sounding names, or people with ethnically-identifiable names.

The first patch I've missed... it's weird.

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