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4.0.1: DPS Warriors Dissapear?
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Post by
Korbu
After reading up on alot of the class changes in Cat, and the mechanic/itemization changes in Cat, i'm suddenly struck with the realization that in the time between 4.0.1 hitting, and the time that Cat launches, DPS Warriors are going to be HUGELY nerfed, and will most likely go into "hibernation" (ie playing other classes) until Cat launches.
One of the reasons, is that the "Rage Normalization" is completely screwed up, and makes a Warrior Rage starved for the majority of a fight. But the largest reason i believe, is the fact that they are completely removing the ArP Property/Talents from the game when 4.0.1 hits, but we can not get Colossus Smash (
) until Lvl 81, after Cat hits. Between that time span, our DPS is going to be greatly reduced from the lack of Armor Pen. DPS Warriors will be benched on the side lines due to non competetive DPS output.
Post by
skumbananer
Yes, your correct. A arms warrior is going to lose all arp, 10% crit (or 5% if non axe wielder) and about 1000 ap, produce much less rage, effectively nerfing a already mediocre pve dps specc even more. Fury i dont play, but im guessing that without deep wounds and hs on next swing they will also feel that nerf (but perhaps just not as severe as pve arms).
I think that Blizzard has the opinion that warriors did more dps than they wanted too, all through wotlk, hence they are overnerfing it now. I also think that Blizz has the opinion that warriors are too powerful in pvp, hence toning down the damage output cause of that.
I also am fairly certain that if they make dps warriors underachieve more warriors will level up as prot in cataclysm, and gear up for raids at 85 as prot, the tank shortage in lfd will be somewhat better than today.
I dont buy any of the crab about the new talents, "no passive stats" etc. just by a quick glance at the different talent trees, it is mainly warriors that have had their passive bonuses removed.
What really ticks me off is that other melee dps classes gets to keep lots of their goodies, and can still perform good with all points in one tree, we cant even reach deep wounds until 85 unless we are arms specced. Massive nerdrage from my part yeah yeah i know.
Personally i think that the dps speccs are nerfed beyond repair regardless of lvl 85 and uber-gear, so im just going to use double prot speccs.
Post by
prollfin
If you play a dps warrior because you want to top the meters, you might switch to another class with 4.0.1.
If you play a dps warrior because you like the class, the style and everything, you'll survive until CATA hits.
Anyway, doing 1,000 dps less after the patch won't matter too much to most people. It's not like 10,000 dps isn't enough for all WOTLK endgame content...
I dont buy any of the crab about the new talents, "no passive stats" etc. just by a quick glance at the different talent trees, it is mainly warriors that have had their passive bonuses removed.
Crab can be pretty tasty. You should try.
Seriously, talking about "passive bonus talents". Anyone else noticed how
dumb
the warrior prime glyphs are? I mean we didn't get a +stam weapon enchant - because it would have been a mandatory no-brainer... we lose plenty of talents - because they're giving a passive bonus and therefore, they're mandatory no-brainers... Looking at the prime glyphs (well, actually for most classes, but the "choices" for warriors are particularly dumb), I wonder, what's those things, then?
I mean: you got 9 prime glyphs, 3 prime glyph slots and 3 different speccs, and the strategical choice you have to make is like "would I like to use a glyph that gives a passive bonus to a talent I actually have in my spellbook? Or should I go with a glyph that
is obviously useless
to me?" That's what I call a mandatory no-brainer... Even more, it makes prime glyphs feel much like completing incomplete talents rather than enhancing them...
Post by
242523
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Korbu
If you play a dps warrior because you want to top the meters, you might switch to another class with 4.0.1.
If you play a dps warrior because you like the class, the style and everything, you'll survive until CATA hits.
My main spec is Prot, and my OS is Arms. I rarely enter a heroic/raid as DPS, but when i do, i do like being capable of doing respectable, competetive DPS. Which we simply can't do with the upcoming changes.
Maybe its just me, but i like the changes and i see possibillities in em, aye maybe we will get rage starv, but we now get some more AoE attack like instan Cleave or if we spec into it
then we can do some stance dansing :) all in all i like the changes.
How the hell does instant Cleaves benefit you, when not only do you not have the Rage to do them because of Rage Starve, but they also hit for alot less damage because of no ArP?
Post by
prollfin
If you play a dps warrior because you want to top the meters, you might switch to another class with 4.0.1.
If you play a dps warrior because you like the class, the style and everything, you'll survive until CATA hits.
My main spec is Prot, and my OS is Arms. I rarely enter a heroic/raid as DPS, but when i do, i do like being capable of doing respectable, competetive DPS. Which we simply can't do with the upcoming changes.
I don't say your dps won't suffer in 4.0.1. I say that you'll cope with it until 4.0.3/CATA/whatever later patch - unless you're only playing a warrior because he does "insane damage".
Post by
thebdc
Will the DPS be nerfed? Yes. Will it be as bad as some people try to make it? No. When I first got onto PTR I was like "omfg warriors are totally screwed", but after after regemming and reforging to the stats Fury will use in Cata (i.e. hit and haste) it didn't look too bad.
Post by
Sakkura
Guys, the sky is obviously falling, so stop trying to talk sense.
Post by
marklartank
i actually think arms is going to be initially nerfed pretty hard, but not so much because of the new class design, but because of how we were forced to gear in the current system.
currently, i have mail boots and bracers, leather pants, agility-based neck, cloak, plus both rings and a pretty low-level armorpen trinket. because of the way gear is itemized now, that's what i had to do to put out respectable dps.
on top of that, every red socket in my gear is gemmed with armorpen and those will be changing to yellow crit gems - a less desirable stat that will also mean i lose every socket bonus in my gear.
i'm sure that once i replace every piece of armor with plate and replace my neck/cloak/rings/trinket with new items and regem almost every socket, that my dps will be ok. but for some time at least, i expect i'll be doing a lot of tanking.
Post by
304214
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Post by
304214
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
677585
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
prollfin
I remember at one stage before WoTLK & AP came out, us fury warriors still cracked some high DPS numbers...Hopefully will be good like that..
Before WOTLK came out (starting with patch 3.0), most Warriors I know (including myself) switched to arms. So that "stage" must have been before the overhaul patch...
Post by
671992
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
prollfin
All the idiots posting about "OMFG we are going to suck no more Armor Pen" need to just STFU. We were fine in Vanilla, TBC, and even early on in Wrath w/o Armor Pen...so why would we all of a sudden just become worthless? If that's the case, then hunters and combat rogues will be worthless as well amirite?
Well, it's just that this is not about ArP (or the lack of it) mainly, but about missing talents and abilities at level 80.
Post by
677585
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
disappearingone
I haven't tried arms yet, but fury took a big hit with 4.01: I lost about 1.5k dps. The main problem isn't the loss of arp, its the loss of ap (no armored to the teeth) and deep wounds (not enough talent points for it at 80). At 83 we can get deep wounds back, which will help, but I don't know what to do until then. Swapping all of my arp gems for str barely made a dent in anything but my wallet.
Post by
GaeBolge
The problem isn't that your loosing DPS, we all do so much dps that we wont really loose much at all. Its that the melee dps in general has become so goddamn face roll. Iv raided as arms, prot, and fury, and as both DPS specs I can pull 9-11kdps easymode, fury I swear I could do whacking off its so easy now. There removing armor pen cause it was just flat out a difficult, and overly powerful stat, and they didn't like how reliant the players have gotten on it (My personal opinion) because even pallies that DO NOT use armor pen are crying about it. Any warr can do 9k dps on average with out a problem, now well do 8kdps for a month or 2. whoopee friggin do.
Welcome to vanilla wow 2.0! Where stuff actually requires you to do stuff!
Post by
304214
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
disappearingone
The problem isn't that your loosing DPS, we all do so much dps that we wont really loose much at all. Its that the melee dps in general has become so goddamn face roll. Iv raided as arms, prot, and fury, and as both DPS specs I can pull 9-11kdps easymode, fury I swear I could do whacking off its so easy now. There removing armor pen cause it was just flat out a difficult, and overly powerful stat, and they didn't like how reliant the players have gotten on it (My personal opinion) because even pallies that DO NOT use armor pen are crying about it. Any warr can do 9k dps on average with out a problem, now well do 8kdps for a month or 2. whoopee friggin do.
Welcome to vanilla wow 2.0! Where stuff actually requires you to do stuff!
Would you mind linking your armory and telling me your rotation, then? I was doing between 7 and 8k before; now, staying over 5 is a struggle. Granted, I'd been relying heavily on ArP, but switching all of that to Str barely helped at all. I'm also having major problems with rage starvation. Maybe its just me, but right now, I feel like fury has been nerfed as badly or worse than it was with 3.1 (when they neutered Titan's Grip).
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