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Cataclysm beta and you → Do you like the new hunter? /share
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Post by
Lorkin
Does the timing difference have anything to do with the possible lag on PTR?
Post by
Gnub
I wonder, can we keep this thread on topic without discussing various matters that has no relation about hunter focus? Yes? Good.
Post by
Wildhorn
The way focus is implemented is bad.
Why? Everybody who say focus is bad just say that without any explication or number.
Steady shot is bugged as some times it will shoot at 2 seconds, other times it takes almost 6 seconds.
It is not consistent which makes it unusable for raiding.
You can't judge viability of something based on a bug. And most likely you get a 6sec steady shot due to the lag experienced on PTR.
Balance between the trees is not there, at the moment BM is the only viable raiding spec until they fubar that too.
Same as focus, Why? Data, Numbers, Reasons.. we want them.
There is NO way to talent hit, SO those hunters without a lot of hit in gear are SOL.
At the moment with my main copied over, I am at 6.02% hit. I have to pick up 2% more to be capped, which means a loss of other stats, further gimping me. Also if I read other posts, hit is not a steady variable as you level, but changes as you get higher in lvl further making it hard to balance.
No physical DPS get +hit from talent. This is intended to make +hit on gears more valuable. So this is no way related to hunter.
The pet bar is very awkward as it takes a few seconds to choose a pet every danged time you want to bring one out.
You can drag/drop each pet to a button to call that pet specifically.
With so many problems with UI, Talents, and gear, on all the classes it would be wrong for them to push out cataclysm until it is in better shape.
Yeah, all those problems that most are not...
Right now new hunters are so overpowered that when they get higher in level, there will be a big surprise. i am leveling a new hunter to test the mechanics of focus, and it is so easy to kill, most of the time my target is dead before my pet even engages my target.
Hunters always been "overpowered" while leveling. They always been #1 for leveling speed.
Post by
Sephisloth
Now nearing 85 on my hunter, having done multiple large scale quest chains and a few 82-84 dungeons, I am slightly still split on how the 'new' hunter will function for me when cataclysm is released.
Focus: I love it.
The new energy type systems adds another dimension to our performance during an encounter. Rather than the occasional "Is it low? No, good" glance at our pretty blue bar (I will miss the pretty), it is neccesary to watch your focus level to ensure it does not sit maxed or fall below what you will need for the next shot in your rotation. However, during a CD like rapid fire, you are hard pressed to use all the focus you are gaining, which is a nice relase from the budgeting of the rotation otherwise.
Of course it has some utility to it as well. There are no more mana breaks or potions being popped to keep up with a tank running a dungeon faster than a burrow that heard an explosion. There are no more breaks in the leveling stream (unless your pet dies, in which case you rez them with no extended mana recovery time) and it makes our dps less affected by an absurdly long fight (ie Viper to replenish mana, not that hunter mana has been an issue in raid groups, but the thought is there).
My opinion will be modified I'm sure by the events of heroic and raid testing, but until then...
Talent Trees: Meh
The talents are a bit restricting. Earlier in the beta, it was even neccesary to take 2-3 PvP talents to fill out a MM spec. Though this is now repaired, you still feel kind of trapped as to what talents you are to take. There isn't much theory crafting to determine which minute benefit will out do some other minute benefit in a raiding or PvP situation, not as much as there was anyway. I miss this sort of inner complexity that made building a spec an involved and detailed process. It has now taken on more of a liner pattern. Keep in mind though, we are still in beta. Things have the potential to change at any given time, so final opinions are all works in progress.
Glyphs: Yes :D
The new three branch glyph system gives some of that fine tuning back that was lost in the smaller talent trees.....and it is just fun :X.
All I feel like typing atm. More ramblings to come.
Post by
512617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
Since his testing hunter is nearing 85 its safe to assume he's in beta. Also he mentions MM tree and the restriction of points.
Post by
512617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rilgon
Focus only works on a single target when you are not forced to move, heal your pet, revive your pet, use Tranquilizing Shot, or use Traps.
Post by
Lorkin
Just curious if the patch on PTR now is the same one in beta? I heard they were tweaking numbers around, just wasn't sure if people are playing with those same numbers between PTR and beta. If they were different, that can explain why some people find focus to be ok while others find it's sluggish.
Post by
Sephisloth
Ugh, not the quote walls again...
@Sephisloth Were you running as Marks or BM? It sounds as though you're on beta rather than PTR, so if you were running as Marks, this could be an indication that things are moving in the right direction </grasp at straws>.
I look forward to your further ramblings. =D
Yes, I'm currently running a MM raiding-esque spec (and working on my BM offspec which I hear is OP in BG's atm :X).
Also, I'm male. Also, I haven't tested SV since months ago in beta (same applies to BM) so it will come in later ramblings lol.
@ Lokin. Well...they are both fours lol XD Not sure otherwise. I'm not at home atm or I'd let you know.
@ Rilgon. What is your justification for those statements?
Post by
Rilgon
About 40 hours worth of focused testing on Raider's Training Dummies and other interactions with high-health targets?
Post by
Wildhorn
Focus only works on a single target when you are not forced to move, heal your pet, revive your pet, use Tranquilizing Shot, or use Traps.
Mend Pet doesnt cost focus.
Revive Pet will cost 35% focus. Revive Pet right now cost about 20-30% of your total mana. Not a big difference if you consider you get the difference back within 1 or 2 second.
About movement, switch to aspect of the fox?
About trap. Guess what? Traps do not cost any focus. So you can do it old-style (mana). If you want to do it new-style (focus), you can spend some to throw it.
Your only valid point is Tranq Shot.
The whole focus thing is to make you think a bit more about what you will do instead to just spam whatever top-priority cooldown is up until your blue bar is empty. More smart play, less huntard.
Post by
Sephisloth
About 40 hours worth of focused testing on Raider's Training Dummies and other interactions with high-health targets?
You mention you have done this but put forth no further details. No when or when or using what spec, etc.
Not putting forth any aggression, just want some more insight into your opinion :).
Post by
Lorkin
Beta must've jaded all these focus haters. I'm hearing both side of the fence so I'm not sure who to believe.
Post by
Wildhorn
Beta must've jaded all these focus haters. I'm hearing both side of the fence so I'm not sure who to believe.
So far, the ones who QQ are the MM hunters because they suddently lose their fotm status.
BM are very happy of changes because they finally end up on par with the 2 other spec after a year of being the underdog and Surv hunters do not seem to care much.
Post by
HoleofArt
Anyone who's in Beta and actually knows what they're testing regarding Hunters is saying Focus is garbage right now. (WHICH IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE - it's just unlikely it will be before Cata is launched.)
People who aren't in Beta (Wildhorn) and are not Hunters who know the in's and out's of the class are the ones saying Focus will be fine.
I'm going to go with Rilgon (who's opinion I value higher than yours regarding anything relating to Hunters, sorry) when he says he's been in-depth testing and thinks Focus still needs to be worked out.
That goes to pretty much everyone in this thread, actually. If you can't prove to me that you know what the #$%^ you're talking about, and that you're
actually in
Beta and are
actually testing
, I don't want to hear your opinion.
Gtfo.
Post by
170457
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gengis
That goes to pretty much everyone in this thread, actually. If you can't prove to me that you know what the #$%^ you're talking about, and that you're
actually in
Beta and are
actually testing
, I don't want to hear your opinion.
Gtfo.
mini wall of text
Wow I have been gone for a while and no offense to anyone here but you guys seem to be doing a lot of qualitative arguing (opinion and not fact based). I am not going to say that focus is fine now cause lets face it, it is buggy as hell. I think that they need to do some tweaking to it in terms of base focus per second which I will tell you now 5/second or make haste affect it more than it currently does. Now before we go on any further may I purpose a test to Rilgon. I am asking this from you since you said that you have done 40+ hours of testing.
Go to your local practice dummy and start doing (what you consider to be the best) rotation/move combo out there to ensure that you are not focus starved for about 5 minutes. Screen shot it on recount and count the number of special shots that cost focus (exclude the free aimed shot when it comes up) and then run that test about 2 more times. Save the data and screen shot it. Do this for the other 2 specs or just survival since you and I and hopefully everyone else knows that at this point BM is the most focus friendly/efficient spec there is. Compare the data from MM and Surv and then if the number of special shots to steady shots is way off for both of them then we all can conclude that focus needs to be re-examined to help out those 2 specs become more focus friendly.
Now if the dps for MM and survival is similar and the number of special shots is way off then that means that it will just be a matter of play style. That is why I suggest that you test all 3 specs and look at dps and special shots done in 5 minutes excluding free focus shots to see how they are all relative to each other.
The way that I am playing right now feels as if BM is pretty close to not ever being focus starved for a KC but I will admit that MM hunters don't have as much focus regen or flat out focus as a BM does. So the point of arguing MM over BM or vice versa is moot. I am only suggesting this since this is more helpful and meaningful than MM sucks I have tested it and I "god" have spoken therefore it must be so. Once you test this post the screen shots (killerabit schooled me in this) and this can then prove your point to others or even help others see a difference in play style and how that will all relate in terms of dps.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Post by
Wildhorn
Anyone who's in Beta and actually knows what they're testing regarding Hunters is saying Focus is garbage right now. (WHICH IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE - it's just unlikely it will be before Cata is launched.)
Your
opinion
.
People who aren't in Beta (Wildhorn) and are not Hunters who know the in's and out's of the class are the ones saying Focus will be fine.
Your
opinion
.
I'm going to go with Rilgon (who's opinion I value higher than yours regarding anything relating to Hunters, sorry) when he says he's been in-depth testing and thinks Focus still needs to be worked out.
Your
opinion
.
That goes to pretty much everyone in this thread, actually. If you can't prove to me that you know what the #$%^ you're talking about, and that you're
actually in
Beta and are
actually testing
, I don't want to hear your opinion.
Your
opinion
.
Gtfo.
You tell us "people in beta, I dont want to hear your opinion". Are you in beta? Then you should take your own advice...
---
@Gengis: well said.
Post by
HoleofArt
Everything in this thread is an opinion, Wildhorn, don't be stupid. You're saying Focus is fine, we're saying it isn't.
I said I don't want to hear anyone's opinion on Focus who isn't in Beta or hasn't done extensive testing - or if they don't have those - at least a Hunter I can look at and know isn't a fail. Those opinions are worth listening to.
You qualify for none of those, Wildhorn.
Also, Gengis, Rilgon was saying that MM lacks Focus if any movement is required, which you pretty much confirmed here The way that I am playing right now feels as if BM is pretty close to not ever being focus starved for a KC but I will admit that MM hunters don't have as much focus regen or flat out focus as a BM does.
This means that Marksman is broken regarding Focus and that nobody will play MM for any reason whatsoever, or even Survival.
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