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All new Cata Druid talent tree

Post by djlowrider

I just have a really hard time justifying spending 5 points to get that little bit more damage (plus slightly cheaper shapeshifting, whoop-dee-doo) versus spending the same points elsewhere in the Feral tree where it can give us both utility and survivability.

If your concern is the threat generation that extra 4% damage represents, I can't contest that as I'm no good with WoW math and I have no interest or desire to get into mechanics discussions. But yes, more damage does mean more threat so if you're someone who's concerned with losing aggro then having both KotJ and MS might make sense.

If, on the other hand, you're simply espousing getting both "because you can" then that really doesn't make any sense at all. By that logic, you could drop one more point from somewhere in Feral with such a build and pick up NS as well, simply because you can.

I'm still sticking with my build anyway. The fewer talents I have to take outside of the Feral tree the better, IMO.

Post by LookOut

And just how much extra damage does Primal Madness bring?

dats right Zero

Blizz said they were planning on making rage more valuable, so 12 rage on both enrage and berserk might actually be worth something. The bear use looks more useful than the cat use anyways -_-

I myself find MS too boring of a talent (adding x% damage/threat, /yawn). And it uses 5 points (3 of which are "an utter waste" so to speak). As opposed to 15% haste on charge and some other neat stuff.

The fewer talents I have to take outside of the Feral tree the better, IMO.

One of our best talents is in the resto tree (Perseverance). So I wouldn't say something like that too soon ;-) I know what you mean though, I just wouldn't say it that way xD

Post by djlowrider

The fewer talents I have to take outside of the Feral tree the better, IMO.

One of our best talents is in the resto tree (Perseverance). So I wouldn't say something like that too soon ;-) I know what you mean though, I just wouldn't say it that way xD

Perseverance is absolutely a must-have talent, but apart from that, Furor, and Naturalist there's next to no reason to waste more points in the Resto tree for Feral tanks.

Perhaps a better statement is to say that apart from those three talents, the reasoning to sink any more points in Resto is at the least questionable.

Post by 492259

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Post by curlymon

And djlowrider, why do you too have pred ints in your build? I just told that with 98% chances it cat only. So you might wanna rework that spec. And primal madnes gives bears whooping 12 rage, that's more like an insults than anything, like we're ever gonna need it.

Maul is becoming a rage dump my friend. You can easily zero your rage with it. 12 rage while not much is a boost.

IMHO

Vengeance is going to be freaking crazy... given that spec and a tank with 60k hp that would be 3600 extra attack power once it is scaled correctly. It also makes SI a slight threat booster :P

Post by bwirum

Post by curlymon

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Post by bwirum

I do know pred inst is cat only atm, I just thought they made it for both bear and cat in Cata ;-) Typos ftw!

I like situational btw, hence why there are a few talents in my spec that are seen as "kitty talents".

^_^

The cat only part was left out of the first release of the new talent trees for cata, so your mind didn't deceive you that much LookOut.

It also only shows up in the description when you put that last point into the talent.

Indeed, I noticed that now, as you see from my edit. Had to blink twice...

Anywho, before moving points from feral to resto tree we now also have to consider the mastery adjustments that you lose out on.

This: 56/20 http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0Ibocrtcfu0Gd0to0Ecxb gives:

Physical Damage: 8.79%
Melee Crit: 8.79%
Bleed Damage: 22.01%
Damage Reduction: 8.79%
Vengeance: 2.75%
Savage Defense: 35.17%

While this: 61/15 http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0ZibIbocrtcfu0Gdhto0E0x gives:

Physical Damage: 9.58%
Melee Crit: 9.58%
Bleed Damage: 23.97%
Damage Reduction: 9.58%
Vengeance: 3%
Savage Defense: 38.31%

It's actually quite an increase for moving 5 points back to feral. Enough to outweigh the 4% ~~melee~~ physical damage from MS? I don't know, haven't done the math, but this mastery stuff is intruiging.

Post by curlymon

Direct difference. Though I must point out the it was originally stated that you only gained a boost to these up to 51 points spent into a tree. WH may not have upper bounds set for the tree's.

Physical Damage: 0.79%
Melee Crit: 0.79%
Bleed Damage: 1.96%
Damage Reduction: 0.79%
Vengeance: 0.25%
Savage Defense: 3.14%

With mastery boosting SD and Bleed damage...

This if you want stat inflation. :P

Post by ljudsnubbe

Question about Predatory instincts:

Rank 1 and 2 says "Increases the damage done by your melee critical strikes by 3/7%" (suggestiong it also works in bearform), while rank 3 says "While in Cat Form increases your damage from melee critical strikes by 10%" (as it works now in wotlk).

Does anyone know if it will work for bears in cataclysm? I soo. hope it does, it would make me ignore Natural shapeshifter (noone needs the mana-reduction anyway) and Master Shapeshifter (4% is good right now, but to boring, and 5 talentpoint to get it...).

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Post by curlymon

If we start thinking that 12 rage with enrage and berserk would be cool, we might aswell start taking OoC back.

But then again, it all depends wheter or not we are swimming in rage or not.

Actually with Maul being what it is OoC would not be out of place anymore if you think about it. There will never be an infinite rage situation due to maul using a mechanic similar to FB. Rage generation will be a mutable resource instead of just taken for granted now.

Well actually the only time you'd encounter an infinite rage situation would be if you managed to generate the maximum Maul could use within it's GCD constantly.

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Post by oberondreaming

I think Nourish will see a lot more use, and tranquility will be used maybe once per fight (8 min CD). I think this will be a bit more powerful..

Overall, talents still strongly favor HoTs (even regrowth) over Nourish most of the time. And while I agree that Nourish (and even HT) will end up being used far more than they are now, I question whether it will be enough to warrant 5 points for a 10% cost reduction to those two spells.

Improved Tranquility on the other hand not only gives you no threat from the new and improved tranquility but it gives you a super-barkskin once per fight. (I'll point out again how useful the new version of Tranquility/Improved Tranquility would be on a Blood Bolts sort of thing.)

Post by 109094

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Post by ljudsnubbe

I dont really get a grip of Pulverize.

So we are supposed to spend 5 GCD on stacking 5 x lacerate, then use pulverize for the big boom and a 10 sec (16 sec with Endless Carnage) critbuff on the target... then restack 5 x lacerate, and 10/16 secs later pulverize again so we have the critbuff up at all times..

I guess its more fun then just keeping them 5 stacks running on the target, as we do now, but still.. why?

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Post by ljudsnubbe

I guess its more fun then just keeping them 5 stacks running on the target, as we do now, but still.. why?
its more fun

ye answered yourself there really.

Bear tanking is uncomplicated and simple, you hardly need you think about what your doing. The current single target rotation is Mangle, FFF Lacerate/swipe, lacerate/swipe Repeat.

Now its Mangle, FFF, Lacerate, lacerate, stack to 5 and pulverise (that kinda ryhmes). You might even have time to squeeze a swipe or 2 while Pulverise's buff is still running.
Thats way more interesting, and certainly more fun

Ye but now since they put maul of the GCD we have that ability to squeese in there as well, and even Trash could possibly get a place in the normal rotation, even for single targets.

I dont say I dont like the idea of having more buttons to press, I just think it look a little weak considering it takes minimum 7,5 secs to stack 5 Lacerate (unhasted), and the critbuff only lasts maximum 16secs. And that is if all you do is spammin Lacerate, I assume we still are supposed to use our other abilitys (FF, mangle, maul) whenever they are of their CD, greatly enlongen the time it takes to get full stacks of lacerate again.

It just seem to me the important thing about the ability is the critbuff, and the direct-damge-part of the abilitys is there to make up for the lacarates we consume on using the ability.

I can see the good thing about making the tanking-rotation more intresting, but I just feel this will make building threat quite slow.

Well, all we can do is wait and see. I love alot of other stuff, like the removal of Improved Purple paw, so i dont get flamed for using 5/5 furor anymore (hehe), Improved Feral charge seems great, freaking 22% reduction to magic-damage, stacking FF, a headbutt/charge/silence (costing only 1 rage, lol), flexibily in the feral specc etc.. much o love to blizzard right now

Oh, and the Mushrooms!

Cool pull:
put 5 mushrooms up (5 is max as far as I know), pulling enemies with Starfire, then moonfire + Insect swarm + FF while they run for you, shifting to Bear (10 rage from furor) as they reach the muchrooms and explode in a cloud of fungus.

All new Cata Druid talent tree

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