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Hell
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Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
The fact that you are even asking these questions makes you an atheist (welcome to the party).I've been at the party for quite a while, mate. :) Been partying it up for almost two years now. ;)
What I want to know is how people reconcile a loving, merciful god, with a place of eternal torture and pain where he sends peopel who believe the wrong thing.
However, it is unreasonable to expect to understand what/why/how God does what he does. You can either accept the premise that He exists and will do things His way, or you can reject that notion and take your chances.How do I know which way is His way?
That is the question, isn't it? Wish I knew.Well, then what incentive do I have to believe the seemingly hypocritical suggestion that a merciful, all-loving god sends people to burn in Hell for eternity?
Post by
MyTie
Well, then what incentive do I have to believe the seemingly hypocritical suggestion that a merciful, all-loving god sends people to burn in Hell for eternity?
Do you ever plan on getting married?
Post by
Skreeran
Well, then what incentive do I have to believe the seemingly hypocritical suggestion that a merciful, all-loving god sends people to burn in Hell for eternity?
Do you ever plan on getting married?I don't
plan
to, but if the opportunity arises, I would consider it.
Why?
Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Naxxos
What I want to know is how people reconcile a loving, merciful god, with a place of eternal torture and pain where he sends peopel who believe the wrong thing.
I suppose the only answer that can be given is that they simply don't reconcile it at all - and they don't feel the need to do so. Many religious people are so assured that they are correct in their beliefs that they will not accept or validate any claims or questions to the contrary. This is evidenced by the mention of other religions - which is true, if any? There is no way of knowing as of now. One question like this will lead to others, which weakens the foundations of faith. The fact is, people view religion as a moral code to follow, and adhere to it quite firmly. Attempting to shake their faith is pointless, as in most cases it is utterly futile due to the indoctrination that many young churchgoers undergo. I'm not saying that religion is bad...although I do believe that unquestioning faith is hurtful. Why would we have the ability to question if we were not meant to do so?
Post by
MyTie
Well, then what incentive do I have to believe the seemingly hypocritical suggestion that a merciful, all-loving god sends people to burn in Hell for eternity?
Do you ever plan on getting married?I don't
plan
to, but if the opportunity arises, I would consider it.
Why?
Do you think you would love your wife?
Post by
Skreeran
The essential premise is that God does not want anyone to burn in Hell... that is why he provided a way to cleanse us of our sin. (IE: Jesus) However, his holiness prevents him from mingling with sinners....Not true, accordnng to your religion. Jesus mingled with protitutes and Sameritans and tax collectors and Roman centurions. He gave proof to Thomas of his divinity. Why not me?
and we can either accept his gift of forgiveness or not, but he does not force that on us.
Personally, I think "hell" is metaphorical and is simply a way of describing eternal existence separated from God. In the end, we will "know" the turth for certain but it will be too late to erase the sin nature that separates us from God's holiness. So, everyone will either be in Heaven (in communion with God) or in Hell (separated from God). It is not a "punishment", per se, but rather a lack of something we will know we desire at that point.
Don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but hopefully you get the point.So I guess your answer is just "Well, I guess it just sucks for anyone not a Christian. No matter how good of a person they are, no matter how much they believe what they believe, they just picked the wrong random choice, and so now it sucks for them."
Yeah, that's totally what a loving god would do. It's more fun that way.
Well, then what incentive do I have to believe the seemingly hypocritical suggestion that a merciful, all-loving god sends people to burn in Hell for eternity?
Do you ever plan on getting married?I don't
plan
to, but if the opportunity arises, I would consider it.
Why?
Do you think you would love your wife?Of course. If I married her, I would love her. I wouldn't just get married on a whim, if that is what you are asking.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this is going somewhere.
Post by
Naxxos
Well, then what incentive do I have to believe the seemingly hypocritical suggestion that a merciful, all-loving god sends people to burn in Hell for eternity?
Do you ever plan on getting married?I don't
plan
to, but if the opportunity arises, I would consider it.
Why?
Do you think you would love your wife?Of course. If I married her, I would love her. I wouldn't just get married on a whim, if that is what you are asking.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this is going somewhere.
Yes, I'm quite curious as to where this already sizable quote pyramid is going...
Post by
MyTie
Do you ever plan on getting married?I don't
plan
to, but if the opportunity arises, I would consider it.
Why?
Do you think you would love your wife?Of course. If I married her, I would love her. I wouldn't just get married on a whim, if that is what you are asking.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this is going somewhere.
If your wife left, and never came home, deciding to follow her own whims and desires, no matter how selfish, would you continue to stay married to her?
Post by
Skreeran
If your wife left, and never came home, deciding to follow her own whims and desires, no matter how selfish, would you continue to stay married to her?Probably not. I don't know.
I think I know where this is going, and I have a rebuttal if it is going where I think it is, but I'll let you continue first.
Post by
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
If your wife left, and never came home, deciding to follow her own whims and desires, no matter how selfish, would you continue to stay married to her?Probably not.
This is the best illustration I can give for Hell. You would be in pain at your wife's desire not to go with you. The difference is, that you are not omnipotent. Imagine if you were though, would forceing your wife to stay with you, to love you in return, would it be true love? Would it mean as much to you? What if you were to follow her around all day long, offering her proof of your presence? Would that 'work' to save your marriage? More than anything, God wants to be loved. He gave us wings so that we could fly away if we desired, and didn't stiffle our lives with His presence constantly. We can fly away if we want to. It must make Him feel so good when we choose to love him in return. The only comparison I have is the way I feel when my wife loves me, which is constantly. It is more valuable than anything. It means more than anything. I can't describe the way it makes me feel. The fact that that love comes freely, and truely, is what makes it so valuable. But there are consequences if that love stops. That doesn't make me a hypocrit.
Post by
Adamsm
'Hell' itself is not what most people think; yes, it's a place of damnation and torture... but only to a point; if the sinner who's soul is sent there finally repents, and realizes what they did was wrong and accept the 'cleansing' or whatever, they are able to travel on to 'Heaven' or their final reward. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, God does not want everyone to suffer for all time if they 'choose' the wrong religion, He merely seems to want humanity to be at it's best when they finally join Him in His kingdom.
Disclaimer: yes, some of this is taken from 'What Dreams May Come'.
Post by
Naxxos
Again, I don't understand the logic of it any more than you do. But, as I said before... we cannot expect God to conform to human logic and emotion. It is my faith that he is righteous and just... I don't claim to know who is going to Heaven or Hell... I'm sure much more goes into that than what we can see or understand. But, I believe that his decisions will be right.
Here's your answer, Skreeran. This is how religious people reconcile the existence of hell and many of the other flaws religion has. Claiming that god's logic is outside the realm of human thought is somewhat absurd. After all, wouldn't one assume that the creator would intimately understand his creations? This is why they do not question. They view god as so much higher than themselves that they do not even deserve the right to question. There you go.
Post by
MyTie
Disclaimer: yes, some of this is taken from 'What Dreams May Come'.Ah. I was gonna say, I didn't see that in the Bible. I try not to look to Robin Williams as my source for spiritual information.
Post by
Skreeran
If your wife left, and never came home, deciding to follow her own whims and desires, no matter how selfish, would you continue to stay married to her?Probably not.
This is the best illustration I can give for Hell. You would be in pain at your wife's desire not to go with you. The difference is, that you are not omnipotent. Imagine if you were though, would forceing your wife to stay with you, to love you in return, would it be true love? Would it mean as much to you? What if you were to follow her around all day long, offering her proof of your presence? Would that 'work' to save your marriage? More than anything, God wants to be loved. He gave us wings so that we could fly away if we desired, and didn't stiffle our lives with His presence constantly. We can fly away if we want to. It must make Him feel so good when we choose to love him in return. The only comparison I have is the way I feel when my wife loves me, which is constantly. It is more valuable than anything. It means more than anything. I can't describe the way it makes me feel. The fact that that love comes freely, and truely, is what makes it so valuable. But there are consequences if that love stops. That doesn't make me a hypocrit.That sure is "human" of God.
In addition, if my wife didn't love me, I wouldn't kidnap her, keep her in my basement, and torture her for as long as possible without killing her, all the while professing my love for her.
'Hell' itself is not what most people think; yes, it's a place of damnation and torture... but only to a point; if the sinner who's soul is sent there finally repents, and realizes what they did was wrong and accept the 'cleansing' or whatever, they are able to travel on to 'Heaven' or their final reward. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, God does not want everyone to suffer for all time if they 'choose' the wrong religion, He merely seems to want humanity to be at it's best when they finally join Him in His kingdom.
Disclaimer: yes, some of this is taken from 'What Dreams May Come'.Says who? You? How do you know?
Post by
Naxxos
This is the best illustration I can give for Hell. You would be in pain at your wife's desire not to go with you. The difference is, that you are not omnipotent. Imagine if you were though, would forceing your wife to stay with you, to love you in return, would it be true love? Would it mean as much to you? What if you were to follow her around all day long, offering her proof of your presence? Would that 'work' to save your marriage? More than anything, God wants to be loved. He gave us wings so that we could fly away if we desired, and didn't stiffle our lives with His presence constantly. We can fly away if we want to. It must make Him feel so good when we choose to love him in return. The only comparison I have is the way I feel when my wife loves me, which is constantly. It is more valuable than anything. It means more than anything. I can't describe the way it makes me feel. The fact that that love comes freely, and truely, is what makes it so valuable. But there are consequences if that love stops. That doesn't make me a hypocrit.
We have proof that both husband and wife actually exist, which is in itself different from the situation we are discussing...that is, if one is to believe that the 'proof' we have been given of god's existence is indeed insufficient.
Post by
Adamsm
Disclaimer: yes, some of this is taken from 'What Dreams May Come'.Ah. I was gonna say, I didn't see that in the Bible. I try not to look to Robin Williams as my source for spiritual information.
Is the overall sense of what is given in the movie really a bad thing? Do you want to think of your love ones suffering for eternity in a deep dark pit?
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