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[3.3.5] Combat raiding.
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Post by
320076
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
You guessed wrong on me mixing up specs and I was just pointing that out.
I mentioned that for the respectable gems of each specc.
You were trying to compare arp with ap&agi, but ap&agi was as i said for the rupture specc.
So you were mixing up the gem comparison of the speccs.
What I mentioned about comparing Agi and AP doesn't involve ArP, ArP is a whole different story.
But Not a fan of cockyness :)
What cockyness?
Post by
320076
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
I was not mixing up the gem comparison for the specs as I clearly stated I was rupture spec.
I was simply asking if gemming ArP in endgame gear was > AP for the rupture spec (after crit capping)
Ah ic.
Although im pretty sure if you are in endgame gear with high arp and the spreadsheet is suggesting you to gem arp, than even respeccing to the evi specc will wield more dps.
And you quoting me and saying "Good" and "I know" seemed cocky. Sorry but we are on teh internets and on the rogue wowhead forums. Lots of cocky people on there.
@#$% happens and btw dont forget to change your glyphs.
Post by
320076
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
goshadstep2lose
why is this still not sticky'd
Post by
391919
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
why is this still not sticky'd
This and the Mutilate and Sub raiding guide need to be stickied asap
They are.
Post by
rnbw
Hello, I've been leveling a Rogue and should be 80 soon. I want to be combat at 80 because I leveled as combat at it seemed fun enough (I will surely look into other specs later on when I feel a bit more confident). I have a few questions about the start post, though. :)
1)
Single target fight Spec:
For single target fights with a long uptime on your target, this is the best:
Combat 3.3.3 Spec
I chose CQC just as an example. This post in no way attempts to define CQC as a better specialization over HnS or Mace Spec.
So basically when I find a new weapon which is better, I should switch specs (for example from CQC to HnS)? Or is it best to change my weapons according to my spec (eg. choose CQC and then only look for fist weapons and daggers)? And when I would have two different weapons (eg. a mace and a
dagger) which spec would I take?
Secondly, since it's not really emphasized in the post, I take it that for combat spec I need a high max damage main hand weapon (generally a slow weapon) and a fast offhand?
Single target fight Rotation:
After reading EJ this morning (7th April), it is said that 2s 2e 5r is the optimal rotation for a geared (i.e. T10) rogue. I am not currently playing myself, so I haven't tried it myself. However, I think it's worth trying, opposed to the T7 rotation (3s 5r 2-5e).
2)
Multiple target fight Spec:
For single target fights with a long uptime on your target, this is the best:
Combat 3.3.3 Spec
I chose CQC just as an example. This post in no way attempts to define CQC as a better specialization over HnS or Mace Spec.
Multiple target fight Glyphs:
Killing Spree
and
Glyph of Sinister Strike
. Third glyph should be either
Glyph of Eviscerate
(best for your own DPS on single target fights),
Glyph of FoK
(for fights with lots of AoE) or
Glyph of ToTT
(Worthy choice for a third Glyph in a raid scenario).
Multiple target fight Rotation:
5pt SnD, then dish out 5pt Eviscerates until you have to refresh your SnD. FoK is better used when there are three or more targets.
I have multiple questions about this part, actually. Since I'm rather new to Rogues, the rotation as specified here seems very confusing. I have no idea what "2s 2e 5r" means or how to interpret that. Could you perhaps elaborate on that?
What about the use of "cooldowns"? I see no mention of Blade Flurry, Killing Spree and Adrenaline Rush. Do they have fixed positions in the rotation? Do I use them at the start of the fight (because I'm sure to be alive then)? Or do I wait for heroism/bloodlust? Some cooldowns could be used multiple times, but on an average fight I can't imagine AR being used twice. And while doing Killing Spree I would be unable to generate combo points, right?
Furthermore how important is Slice and Dice? I have not really used it much while leveling (well I started off at using it a lot but later on when I tried not using it and just going with Sinister Strike and Eviscerate, things died way quicker).
Also it says "5pt SnD, then dish out 5pt Eviscerates until you have to refresh your SnD"... how tight is this? How many Eviscerates can be done, generally?
If the fight involves frequent target switching, then use the following as replacement for your SS button:
#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike
That's nice, but I don't see explained why this is useful. :P
Well sorry for my many questions, but I generally feel like a good rotation is most important in doing nice DPS. And I want to
understand
my rotation to know what I'm doing, rather than bashing a set sequence of numbers and hoping it will go well (if I understand it well, I can adjust better to the situation).
Post by
604495
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
LeionX
So basically when I find a new weapon which is better, I should switch specs (for example from CQC to HnS)? Or is it best to change my weapons according to my spec (eg. choose CQC and then only look for fist weapons and daggers)? And when I would have two different weapons (eg. a mace and a
dagger) which spec would I take?
Secondly, since it's not really emphasized in the post, I take it that for combat spec I need a high max damage main hand weapon (generally a slow weapon) and a fast offhand?
Yes, always spec for your weapons. The effects from the talents only effect the weapons your using. If you have mixed weapons (eg. Mace and Sword) then unless you waste the talent points into each spec, you'll only gain the benefit of that talent for THAT weapon.
It's generally a bad idea to mix weapons, but if new weapon craps all over your old one, then yes you can mix them up. When choosing the talent points, talent for the weapon in your mainhand.
Also remember, you want the weapon with the highest POTENTIAL DAMAGE in your mainhand. Not the one that says it has the highest DPS.
What about the use of "cooldowns"? I see no mention of Blade Flurry, Killing Spree and Adrenaline Rush. Do they have fixed positions in the rotation? Do I use them at the start of the fight (because I'm sure to be alive then)? Or do I wait for heroism/bloodlust? Some cooldowns could be used multiple times, but on an average fight I can't imagine AR being used twice. And while doing Killing Spree I would be unable to generate combo points, right?
As a good DPS, you use your Cooldowns when ever you can. Not using them is a waste. If your able to time your use of cooldowns with other party cooldowns then thats good but don't go out of your way to do so. Also be aware of whats going on before you use your cooldowns as well. Due to the random nature of Killing Spree and the splash damage of Blade Flurry, you want to use a little bit of common sense before popping them.
Furthermore how important is Slice and Dice? I have not really used it much while leveling (well I started off at using it a lot but later on when I tried not using it and just going with Sinister Strike and Eviscerate, things died way quicker).
As your leveling, Slice'n'Dice isn't as importaint. But when it comes to endgame raiding. Slice'n'Dice is the single most importaint finisher we have. Both Assassination and Combat want this move to be active 100% due to the fact most of our damage comes from auto attacks (and in the case of Assassination, the poison proccing from those auto attacks)
If the fight involves frequent target switching, then use the following as replacement for your SS button:
#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike
That's nice, but I don't see explained why this is useful. :P
I'll explain for him, Liquoid can choose too fix it later if he wishes.
Due to the nature of the game, when you don't have any mana, or in this case energy, when you haven't got the energy to use Sinister Strike your toon stands around with their finger up there bum doing nothing. What this basic macro does is combine Auto Attack and Sinister Strike together so even if you don't have the energy to use Sinister Strike, you don't stand around looking stupid. It's useful as nearly all Rogue players are usually spamming Sinister Strike. (I spam it that bad that the number I have SS bound too has rubbed off, leaving a blank key. >_>)
Well sorry for my many questions, but I generally feel like a good rotation is most important in doing nice DPS. And I want to
understand
my rotation to know what I'm doing, rather than bashing a set sequence of numbers and hoping it will go well (if I understand it well, I can adjust better to the situation).
You'ld be right in that regard with Rogues. It's more a piroity if anything. Make sure Slice'n'Dice is up all the time. Followed by Rupture if your using a Rupture based rotation. Basic SnD > Rupture > Evis. Use SnD > Evis if your using a Rupture-less based rotation.
Edit: Mistakes, lotsa mistakes.
Post by
Liquoid
If the fight involves frequent target switching, then use the following as replacement for your SS button:
#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike
That's nice, but I don't see explained why this is useful. :P
If you don't have the macro above, when your first add dies and you switch to the second, if you just press your SS bind but don't have 40 energy, you won't actually start auto-attacking. You will only start auto-attacking once you press your SS bind with 40 energy.
The above macro ensures you maximise your time auto-attacking.
Post by
Liquoid
On cooldowns:
A melee will benefit the most when he uses his Haste cooldowns/buffs at the same time. However, some abilities have too short of a CD to delay (e.g. ToTT, Killing Spree). Therefore, it is acceptable to use them as soon as the CD is off, unless there is a very good burst opportunity coming in a few seconds, or unless you need to ToTT a fresh add/boss to the tank.
Post by
rnbw
Cool, I understand it a lot more now! Thanks. :)
I still have a few questions left, though... I hope you don't mind. XD
Could you perhaps explain what "2s 2e 5r" means? I think I have an idea now, is that 2 cp Slice and Dice, 2 point Eviscerate and 5 point Rupture? If so, that would mean SnD wouldn't be up 100%.
Which brings me to my next point. For some reason I don't seem to have enough energy most of the time to get "enough" combo points. For example I can get to 5 cp, then do SnD, then get to 5 cp and a Rupture. But the next time I'm at 5 cp my SnD is long expired and my Rupture is almost done too (a few seconds left). So if I would use Eviscerate then, I would have no SnD and no Rupture up (and if I would use SnD I would have no Rupture, and if I would use Rupture I would have no SnD, etc). I am not sure what I'm doing wrong there.
About Tricks of the Trade, which I find a lot of fun btw, is it "allowed" to put it on a high DPS rather than the tank in certain situations? I can imagine if the tank has lots of threat and is in control, I could stick Tricks on the highest DPS so he does +15% damage...? And a lot damage +15% is a lot more. XD
Oh and finally, to revisit the weapon discussion... Let's say I'm sword spec and have two swords. My main hand sword isn't that good and my offhand sword is really good. I then find a mace which is really, really good for my main hand (but about on par with my offhand). Would I spec into maces, or can I go 3/5 mace and 2/5 swords?
Also I read somewhere that for special attacks daggers are normalized (to 1.7 speed, I think?). Does that apply to poisons and
combat potency
as well? Or could I safely equip a very, very fast dagger in my offhand? XD (Although I suppose going daggers isn't really good because there aren't slow many daggers with high maximum damage). :-P
Post by
Liquoid
2s 2e 5r is just one of the rotations you can do. Basically, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). If you are not confident, increase your SnD CP's and do Ruptures before Eviscerates. This way, when you're Eviscerating, you can strip CP's from Eviscerates (Performing Eviscerates earlier) to save up CP's for your SnD.
Yes, once MT has aggro safely, ToTTing a good DPS within 20 yards is a good idea.
If you have to mix Weapon Specializations, put 5 points into your Mainhand's type and one point into your Offhand's type (the latter is only possible if one of the types happens to be CQC).
There are two reasons to have a fast OH for Combat:
Combat Potency
Deadly Poison
Post by
Caperon
I am unsure of this post above.
QFT
Post by
rnbw
@Rousten & Caperon: I don't understand... did I say something stupid?
Thanks for the explanation Liquoid. I understand that 2s 2e 5r is a rotation, but I wasn't sure what the "s", the "e", the "r" and the number stood for. :)
And my very last question (I hope lol), what is fast enough for offhand? For example I have
Fang of Truth
and
Dagger of Betrayal
drops (sorry for the "lame" blue and low level examples). Sure it's better, has higher DPS, etc, but it's a bit slower. Would the 1.8 affect the deadly poison and combat potency in such a way that the 1.5 one actually turns out to be better?
Post by
Liquoid
Speed is more important than DPS for off-hands.
Post by
rnbw
Alright. Are daggers in combination with Combat Potency and Deadly Poison normalized? Or should I just get a
Librarian's Paper Cutter
for now because it's so amazingly fast?
Post by
LeionX
If you have two daggers. Go Assassination, using two Daggers for Combat is the worst thing you can do.
Hell, it's even worse then going Sub for PvE.
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