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10.2.7
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51/18/2 vs 51/13/7
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Post by
Kiwie
Hi everyone,
First off I'd like to tell you were I stand raid wise so you understand my point of view.
Im currently raiding up to putricide in 10 and 25, so not the highest of the highest.
Now the reason for making this topic is I found that after testing on a dummy ( I know its not raid buffed and he aint debuffed, but its good for an indication) I find myself doing round 5.1K dps with the 51/13/7 build, and while I use the 51/18/2 build I end up doing round 4.3k dps. Now I will link my armory in the bottom but I'm sure im capped at hit and expertise and my rotation for both is:
Garrote ->HfB->SnD-> Muti(till 4 or higher) ->Env -> Muti(till 4 or higher) -> Env......
Now I know my gear isn't the best in slot, but its the best I've been able to get.
Can someone see from my armory/rotation why the "Optimal" rotation gives me a lower dps output?
My armory:
PS: my hit trinket isnt needed I know, but the only other ones I have are Scorpion needle and Mirror of Truth. So I thought this was better.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kiwie
As I already mentioned I know it was only a dummy, but I can't see why the haste build would benefit so much more from raidbuffs that it can even up and exeed the other dps in the 51/13/7 while the raidbuffs would also improve the dps of the 51/13/7 build.
So my question remains unanswered.
Can someone please help me with this question?
Post by
ShadowSerpent
3/3 turn the tables should be 3/3 master poisoner. You do have this in your 51/13/7 build. And yes, the non-consuming of your deadly poisons is very important, since 5/5DP + DP = IP, or something like that, I know I screwed something up there ><' Also note that it is a fixed 3% of crit on
all
attacks against poisoned targets, instead of an 6% for 8 seconds increase for
only your CB generating abilities
.
Other then that, you don't only miss the melee haste, you also removed a few points from close quarters combat, meaning less crit chance, less energy income, less mutilates&envenoms, less dps.
Since mutilate is really only a combo point generator (it only accounts for ~10% of your damage or so, not enough to be viable as main damage ability), and garrote is really only for HFB, Opportunity is pretty pointless as well.
All math has already been done by EJ =)
Edit: you could switch those point from turn the tables back into master poisoner, put those from opportunity back in close quarters combat, and see how that works out for you. I still think it won't work, since I'm guessing those guys at EJ already did the math (melee haste=more poison procs), but nothing's stopping you from trying again is it? =p
Post by
CeeKay
RNG
Unless you test on the dummy for upwards of 1 hour, your numbers can be skewed do to random number generation.
Also, different attempts can have other players putting up different raid buffs on the dummy that affect your dps.
If you really want to delve into the spec debate with mutilate download the latest edition of the java spreadsheet:
iDPS
It is very easy to use and very close to Aldriana's spreadsheet results.
Post by
Kiwie
3/3 turn the tables should be 3/3 master poisoner. You do have this in your 51/13/7 build. And yes, the non-consuming of your deadly poisons is very important, since 5/5DP + DP = IP, or something like that, I know I screwed something up there ><' Also note that it is a fixed 3% of crit on
all
attacks against poisoned targets, instead of an 6% for 8 seconds increase for
only your CB generating abilities
.
Other then that, you don't only miss the melee haste, you also removed a few points from close quarters combat, meaning less crit chance, less energy income, less mutilates&envenoms, less dps.
Since mutilate is really only a combo point generator (it only accounts for ~10% of your damage or so, not enough to be viable as main damage ability), and garrote is really only for HFB, Opportunity is pretty pointless as well.
All math has already been done by EJ =)
Edit: you could switch those point from turn the tables back into master poisoner, put those from opportunity back in close quarters combat, and see how that works out for you. I still think it won't work, since I'm guessing those guys at EJ already did the math (melee haste=more poison procs), but nothing's stopping you from trying again is it? =p
Omg... can't believe I missed that during the making off my offspecc.. I can clearly understand why I need Master Poisoner and can't understand how I made that mistake... I'll fix this as soon as i get home and test again. Using master poisoner will increase the dps on that build alot thats for sure.
Thanks for pointing it out, I can't wait till i can test again.
Post by
greyghost
Why do people insist on doing their own "testing" when there's a
whole freaking community
already devoted to this and are usually well adept to it? To the point where you just shouldn't argue with their findings.
Do you contest the opinions of 3 doctors when you yourself are a janitor? (analogies aren't perfect)
Post by
GenXCub
Why do people insist on doing their own "testing" when there's a
whole freaking community
already devoted to this and are usually well adept to it? To the point where you just shouldn't argue with their findings.
Do you contest the opinions of 3 doctors when you yourself are a janitor? (analogies aren't perfect)
I don't think that's an apt analogy.
The correct analogy would be "do you contest the opinion of a doctor while you're a med student?" and the answer is yes, you get as many opinions as possible and then see what works for you.
He's a rogue taking advice from potentially more experienced rogues, but, as we all know, we do best with what suits our playstyle, or see if we can shoehorn in another playstyle and make it our own.
Post by
greyghost
I don't think that's an apt analogy.
The correct analogy would be "do you contest the opinion of a doctor while you're a med student?" and the answer is yes, you get as many opinions as possible and then see what works for you.
He's a rogue taking advice from potentially more experienced rogues, but, as we all know, we do best with what suits our playstyle, or see if we can shoehorn in another playstyle and make it our own.
First, no such thing as a perfect analogy or it wouldn't be an analogy at all. Second, it isn't about experience, it is about the people who dedicate meaningful time out of their lives and have the expertise to do so to crunch the numbers. It is about the numbers themselves. Experience is useless if the data doesn't collaborate with it.
If you LOVE playing as an unproven spec, all the experience in the world wont help you against an equally geared rogue that's following the advice of ald, mav and the rest at EJ. Use a spreadsheet, use iDPS if you can't, account for ALL the variables that should be noted, AND THEN you might have a case worth presenting to the rogue community. Even then, there's going to be a great chance that it has already been tested and discarded.
Here's a better analogy for you, it's like a community college science major contesting the findings of a peer reviewed scientific journal that has the backing of every major scientist that read it. Small chance the science major is correct, but he has a huge hurdle to climb over to prove it.
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