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Heros for the Alliance?
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Post by
leuitinet
Is the Admiral racist as in all races, Horde only, like Garrosh and think all other races are weak, or like Staghelm thinking Humans are the superior race and the others are support races?
And Staghelm is a night elf supremacist =D.
sry had it backwards...Ive been on Wowwiki reading up on everyone and forgot he was a Nelf.
Corruption can twist ones mind and soul. All the tragedy and confliction in all of his years, and competing with others for leadership can strain ones sanity
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
leuitinet
Heros IMO are those that are a beacon of hope and influence. When they step foot on the battlefield, their very presence rallies the ranks.
My opinion of past heros: A past hero that is still known, dead or alive, is a Legend. Legendary figures are usually heros of the past whose greatness has not been forgotten, and their methods of combat, strat, ect are still in practice in some way shape or form.
Definition of hero. And so far no one disagrees
I thought the troll charge was "For Sen'jin"?
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Next, Rend. He was a Horde hero and Veteren of the First and Second wars. I'm not saying that he is not going to be honored by someone from the New Horde, but he was quite a loss. A good warrior and leader of one of the strongest orcish clans.
I've got a problem with this statement. By all accounts, Rend was never a hero in any way, nor was Maim. He was seen as a weak and conniving orc, riding his father's coattails, trying to grab at power wherever he could. He shied away from challenging Doomhammer, when it would have been his place as Blackhand's eldest son to do so... but he was afraid - not a well-liked quality among orcish culture. When he was asked to rejoin, leading the Blackrock Clan in the Horde before the Alliance Expedition to Draenor, he promptly refused, forsaking his people.
He may have been a veteran of both wars, and he may have been the leader of the Blackrock Clan, but that is not criteria for being a hero.
In the same sense, one could call Gul'dan a hero. He was both a veteran and the leader of the Shadowmoon Clan.
But, we know that Gul'dan was probably the most evil bastard ever spawned in the mythos. Yes, even more than Sargeras. Gul'dan sold himself and his people out for his own gain, and knowingly. Sargeras at least has the excuse of being driven mad by the Nathrezim. (Coincidentally, Gul'dan might be on an equal level with the Nathrezim in the evil department, but we just don't have enough of their story to support that claim.)
Post by
Adamsm
As no one has put him heh:
Velen the Prophet is a hero; he lead his people for 25k years, didn't accept the corruption of Sargeras, and did his best to stop the war against the Orcs. When that didn't work, he ordered the decree to kill the Demon-tainted orcs cleanly to free them of their corruption. He then kept his people together and alive after war, accepting the Broken Nobundo to get shamanism into the race and tried to save his people again when the Blood Elves tried to take over Tempest Keep.
I just hope he's more active come Cata.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
leuitinet
I just hope he's more active come Cata.
I hope everyone is...
Destruction and Chaos always bring out heros lol. Its kinda like a rez really. Heros hear that destruction has gripped the land and rise to the challenge. Trait of a hero me thinks
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Anmity
That makes me an optimistic, perhaps we'll see more of Tyrande, Velen and more in Cata.
Come on, Cairne if anyone. (Not that he's a hero of the Alliance, though). He's just been standing there since... the beginning. He offers one(!) quest, and that is for lowbie taurens.
Post by
leuitinet
That makes me an optimistic, perhaps we'll see more of Tyrande, Velen and more in Cata.
Come on, Cairne if anyone. (Not that he's a hero of the Alliance, though). He's just been standing there since... the beginning. He offers one(!) quest, and that is for lowbie taurens.
I agree. Same for Zul'jin and they Belf leaders. I dont see alot of them in-game. Cairne is one of my fav leaders. I mean he uses a totem pole to smack you in the face. Thats just awesome. The one leader that is the only boss in the city. I havent seen any other ? npcs in TB. Is Cairne the only Tauren boss?
Post by
Anmity
That makes me an optimistic, perhaps we'll see more of Tyrande, Velen and more in Cata.
Come on, Cairne if anyone. (Not that he's a hero of the Alliance, though). He's just been standing there since... the beginning. He offers one(!) quest, and that is for lowbie taurens.
I agree. Same for
Zul'jin
and they Belf leaders. I dont see alot of them in-game. Cairne is one of my fav leaders. I mean he uses a totem pole to smack you in the face. Thats just awesome. The one leader that is the only boss in the city. I havent seen any other ? npcs in TB. Is Cairne the only Tauren boss?
You mean Vol'jin, right?
Post by
leuitinet
Yeah... Wow im off today. Ive been cramming my head with so much lore as of late, Im mixing things up.
I think I mixed up Zul'jin and Vol'jin earlier also. Wow. /facepalm
Post by
Rankkor
again, being famous, renowed, or "a protagonist" doesn't make someone a hero.
few from the old horde can be considered heroes, why? because whatever they did to get recognition, they did it for themselves, not for someone else.
a hero is someone who's willing to put aside ego, pride, and stubborness, and take whatever desitions are needed for the greater good of their people or their loved ones.
Arthas, while evil was indeed a hero, his pursuit of mal'ganis and the culling of stratholme were done to protect the rest of the kingdom, agreed that those were some extreme measures, and everything he did on northrend was terrible, but his motivation for his actions was to protect his people, not for personal gain.
Rend, and Zul'jin were cunning greedy bastards, same goes for varimathras, whatever they did to gain fame, was done for only 1 reason, personal gain (quoting mal'ganis "how will this benefit me?")
they may fight the enemy of their respective people, but they do so for personal glory and gain, NOT for the actual sake of their people.
whatever varimathras did on hillsbrad was done for his own agenda, ever since he joined the forsaken was to save his own neck.
blackhand (father and sons) did what they did to gain glory, and power, nothing more, they could care less if it damned their people to attain it, so long as they get their cut they get it done.
a true hero is someone who's willing to look past the simple choises and work for the greater good of the ones they love, even if the price they have to pay is dire.
you think the alliance desertors in warsong hold are heroes? they're cowards, when the time came for them to give themselves to save the ones they love, their compatriots, they chose to preserve their own lives, wich proves they didn't came to norhrend to help their people, they came to gain something, and the price that had to be paid to get it was too much for them. By surrendering and hoping this would get them sent back home they proved that they lack the necesary self-sacrifice needed to be considered "hero".
(of course the alliance farmers on that farm north of valiance keep are REALLY REALLY heroic, I was pretty darn impressed to see them willing to pay the ultimate price for their compatriots).
and darkton, 2 things:
A; by metzen's own words, kadghar is no longer part of the alliance, he's outside of the chain of command, no alliance king queen or officer can give him an order and expect him to obey, he's a neutral heroic figure.
B: same as delt said, share with us your definition of a hero (because dictionaries are not enough, a hero is something subject to interpretation, and while several users, myself included, have shared our definitions of what is a hero, you haven't and expect us to accept the most controversial major characters as heroes)
Post by
Adamsm
Zul'jin is a hero to the Amani even if he isn't to the Horde or the Alliance. Rend is probably a hero to the Dark Horde of Blackrock Spire as well.
Post by
Skreeran
I'd say that Rend Blackhand, Zul'jin, and Kargath Bladefist were all heroes of the Old Horde, because the Old Horde saw them as heroes. Whether we judge them to be heroes or not is irrelevant in my opinion, because if you were to go to ol' Garg Bloodface out in the Barrens and ask what he thought of Kargath Bladefist, he'd most likely go off on a long exposition on how awesome Kargath was.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
leuitinet
Ive posted a good definition of hero a few times. Heros are defined by different ppl, and therefore different ways.
Correct me if im wrong, but Orcs are known for their savagery in combat, yes? So Blackhand proving his ferocity in battle, Taking SW at its peak, shows great skill and made him worthy of Warchief status.
Warchief. Someone that ranks look to for guidence and leadership.
Heros. Someone that ranks look to for guidence and leadership.
King. same as warchief.
If you look at Zul'jin is a hero to his ppl. He did things to presever his kind and ensure their exsistance.
Arthus has been corrupted. Who else does that sound like? What other 'King' was once a hero, but fell to corruption of power? Illidan. Illidan was a great Night Elf hero, but since he was swayed my power and corrupted, he is now a villian. Like Arthus his actions werent for personal fame and glory.
Post by
Rankkor
Rank... seriously, no one wants to read your wall of text that goes on and on about "I'm right Horde are only heros Alliance are evil we are better at everything hahaha",
that's flamming, do I have to bring argent here to put order again? and if you actually read what I say never ever have I said that the horde are only heroes, you completely missed the line I repeated 9 times on my last post.
Most = / = all.
I said most horde heroes remain horde till the end of their days and most is NOT the same as all, capishe?, and where-where did I mentioned the words "Alliance+evil"?
if I did feel free to quote, I haven't edited any of my posts, and u're free to rub it in my face where did I say that.
Wheather your going to admit it or not (which you won't), Horde is not perfect and has several dead figures.
I've never denied that the horde has flaws, because I consider bladefist one of the few horde heroes who did sucumbed to corruption regardless of how honorable he was before (just the same way as arthas and abbendis were both honorable before becoming evil)
after all I believe that the main creed of the horde is to ascend above darkness and redeem themselves for their past deeds.
I'm well aware that 99% of the old horde was rotten to the bone, and that the new horde is not 99% rotten as varian claims, most of the flaws you post make the mistake of assuming that old-horde and new horde are the same, and they are not.
that would be like asuming the silver-hand and the scarlet crusaders are the same just because most of it's members were former members of the silver hand.
Khadgar = Alliance. Metzen said he is helping a fraction that supports peace
care to quote that? because delt already linked a quote that said he wasn't part of the chain of command, and I ask you darkton, if any alliance officer ordered kadgar to come to azeroth and help fight off the horde, would he doit? nope, he would not.
to be more accurate he was a part of the kirin tor, and while the kirin tor was part of the alliance back on the second war (when he made is trip to outland) the kirin tor is neutral now, wich means his allegiance is to ronin and the council of six, wich are NOT part of the chain of command of the alliance.
one last thing
where-where did I mentioned the words "Alliance+evil"? if I did feel free to quote, I haven't edited any of my posts, and u're free to rub it in my face where did I say that, so darkton, WHERE did I said "lololol horde is good, alli is evil?"
I dare you to quote it.
please do NOT say lies about me, that's flamming, don't make me report you again, and lastly, u're not the boss of me or of anyone else in this forum, I can post whatever the hell I want to (so long as it's not a flame or personal atack against someone specific) and you are NOBODY to tell me otherwise.
is that clear enough?.
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