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Progressing Lore in a "frozen" game
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Post by
Lightbrand
I'm a lore freak, but the integration of lore progression in World of Warcraft is something that irks me and I can't figure out why. I'll let out my train of thoughts here and hopefully like minded readers can share their opinions.
So WoW is a continuation of WC3, where the story will be told now through an ever changing world.
Try to follow me when I say:
In WoW Classic:
When I make my level 1 character, he's just an adventurous youngster who wants to see the world.
Assuming the quests we do are just various obstacles during our adventure, generally they do not matter much (so when I level my second character, even though I'm helping the same lady find his son's cloak in the same river, it can be assumed that they are just one of million different things the NPC could have needed help with.)
But when I reach 60, I'm an experienced hero, I've now aligned myself with other heroes and we group together to battle the threat to our world.
We defeat Ragnaros in Molten Core, thwart Nefarian in Blackwing Lair, destroyed Hakkar in Zul'gurub, breached the Aq'ir empire and slay their mastermind C'thun. We even managed to defend off against the Lich King's first assault from Kel'thuzad's Naxxramas. Now these can be world changing events, assuming the players who did not get into guilds that downs MC can still consider the threat of Ragnaros to be dealt with, we now move to Outland.
The Burning Crusade:
A new youngster wants to see the world, now after questing his way through the land of Azeroth, he reaches level 58, with the threat of Ragnaros and C'thun being dealt by the me and the Old heroes, the youngster crosses the Dark portal to help the us with our battles beyond. So when he reaches 70, he meets up with the Old heroes, and together we kill Illidan, and push Kil'jaeden back through the Sunwell. Once again, these can be considered world changing events and after they are dealt with we face the second invasion from the Lich King.
Wrath of the Lich King:
A third young adventurer starts his journey, after hitting 58 he goes to Outland and since there is no threat with Illidan and Kil'jaeden anymore, at 68 he's able to get on a boat to Northrend. Once he reaches 80 he meets up with the Old heroes and we battle together against Naxxramas, the Obsidian sanctum and ends the Nexus war with Malygos. Brann opens the gate of Ulduar and we slay the second Old God Yogg-Saron. Finally we tested our skills in the Argent Tournament and today we are on our assault against the Lich King.
No problem so far right? That's cool, because everything right now involves something new, it's like going from Room A to B to C, it's a linear story progression. But what about Cataclysm.
In Cataclysm, the Old Heroes journeys home to find their land changed by Deathwing's return, and they immediately set chase. That's also cool, but how will it make sense to the new adventurers?
Cataclysm:
A new youngster witnesses the Cataclysm first hand and wants to set out adventuring, throughout his journey he helps those whose lives changed due to Deathwing's emergence (new quests), but wait, when he reaches level 58, he leaves this torn world behind to go to Outland? Then when he gets 68 he comes back and get on a boat to Northrend? THEN he comes back at 78 to help with the old heroes? And since Arthas plays such a big part in Northrend quests, so to him, the Lich King is still alive even though to the Old heroes they've already defeated him.
I don't know where I'm going with this, and I'm sure people will be going "lolwut" and "wow get a life" etc that's cool, but if you actually care about the story in this game, please share how you interpret the game's world of "frozen in time" style mechanic, and yet with a progressing lore.
Post by
hymer
With those characters where I immerse myself in the storyline, I always see it more as a series of short stories from the same world, not an epic novel. So there is a lot of stuff that lurks untold in the background.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, when they head to Outland and Northrend they are doing something; they are cleaning up the remains of the Betrayer's and the Lich King's forces(or new forces in the case of Scourge). The only new things that won't be changed are the Death Knight, no matter when you do those starting quests, your in that phased version of Azeroth pre-Cata.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, when they head to Outland and Northrend they are doing something; they are cleaning up the remains of the Betrayer's and the Lich King's forces(or new forces in the case of Scourge).That doesn't work either, since we'll still be doing the Wrathgate and Battle for Undercity quests...
Garrosh is Warchief from 1 to 72
Suddenly, Thrall is Warchief for Battle of Undercity
Finish quest, Garrosh is Warchief again?
There are still a lot of holes that need to be figured out.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Unless Northrend and Outland are changed to reflect the vast difference of the Cataclysm, I'll view leveling up through them as a game mechanic, rather than a part of my character's story. When the game progresses from one expansion to the next, the story of the last is over; not just for the people who experienced it, but for every character that comes after it.
Post by
jcf190
Unless Northrend and Outland are changed to reflect the vast difference of the Cataclysm, I'll view leveling up through them as a game mechanic, rather than a part of my character's story. When the game progresses from one expansion to the next, the story of the last is over; not just for the people who experienced it, but for every character that comes after it.
This pretty much sums it up. You're going to have to suspend your belief going back and doing old content. That's all there is to it.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
I don't know where I'm going with this, and I'm sure people will be going "lolwut" and "wow get a life" etc that's cool, but if you actually care about the story in this game, please share how you interpret the game's world of "frozen in time" style mechanic, and yet with a progressing lore.
I share your point of view, and if you look back and read my additions to this forum, you'll surely notice my views on all of it - I think I'll save you from linking the countless threads however.
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
I like that in cata they are going to try to make use of old zones nobody goes to, like silithus, or un goro. But, i have heard they are going to make dead mines heroic! like, they shouldnt just recycle old stuff, they should change the old stuff. how about have vancleef be dead? my character has already killed him 9919324932 times, damnit just let him die.
You are one player out of ~11 million. Blizzard tries to please as many people as possible, but they can't please everyone and never win.
E.g:
Playerbase says: NERF NAXX IS TOO HARD!
Blizz says: Okay, it can be an easier raid in the upcoming expansion.
--
Playerbase says: OMG NAXX IS SO EZ MODE! WUR IZ DA CHALLENGE?
Blizz says: Um...We just did exactly what you asked us to do.
Playerbase says: STFU QQ, BLIZZ IGNORES EVERY PLAYER!
Another example:
Playerbase says: OMG YOU REMEMBER HOW EPIC ONYXIA WAS? BLIZZ SHOULD MAKE IT FOR LVL 80S LOL.
Blizz says: That's a good idea, the iconic fight can be rehashed for the 5 year anniversary of WoW.
---
Playerbase says: OMG USE ORIGINAL CONTENT NOOB!
Blizz says: Um... alright then...
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Seriously, who ever goes to BRD? ever?I do heh, I love that instance.
Post by
HiVolt
Seriously, who ever goes to BRD? ever?I do heh, I love that instance.
I absolutely love BRD. In fact, there's really not any dungeon that I don't like.
Post by
Gnub
in my opinion, things should change in the world. for example, in EPL what is happening to the argent dawn and scarlet crusade over there? are they just sitting there? is the scourge getting battled back? is the scarlet cursade still existent?
i personally think the scarlet crusade is awesome, they are an intresting blend of good and evil. but did they ALL die with DK starting quests? are some of them still left hangin out or what?
Have you ever been to Northrend? No, seriously - have you? (HINT: Scarlet Onslaught).
in my Personal opinion, most content patches should be more like world events such as the whole Shattered sun offensive/ sunwell thing. i dont think that all dungeons should even exist forever. i think certain dungeons may have the capacity to be reused, but others not so much. so, in EPL you could maybe have the scarlet crusaders either get removed or try to make a comeback of sorts. maybe as the scourge weakens in northrend, you can be apart of several argent dawn Campaigns to recover bits and peices of the old kingdom of lordaeron. Prehaps you could have alliance and horde conflict over "who gets lordaeron?" because the humans and forsaken have valid reasons to claim the land. maybe you could introduce new dungeons as the scourge "fight back" against the argent dawn carving up their land. this would be more fun, in my opinion.
And thus ruin the storyline for new players? Please. Story (and thus lore, to a degree) progresses as you level. When will people learn?
Post by
Lightbrand
Q. With the Lich King defeated, in Cataclysm, will the Plaguelands be green and beautiful again?
A. Western Plaguelands will finally be free of the plague in Cataclysm. It’s hard for the Scourge to survive without their beloved Lich King. I guess this means we need to rename the zone?
Well that's one question answered...
More interesting at Northrend though if they follow that logic...
Post by
Adamsm
Q. With the Lich King defeated, in Cataclysm, will the Plaguelands be green and beautiful again?
A. Western Plaguelands will finally be free of the plague in Cataclysm. It’s hard for the Scourge to survive without their beloved Lich King. I guess this means we need to rename the zone?
Well that's one question answered...
More interesting at Northrend though if they follow that logic...
That's only Western, Eastern will remain as they are.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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