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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Level 50 prot glyphs question
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Post by
328067
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
marklartank
i don't think the devastate glyph would be worthwhile at level 50; you're better off with cleaving instead of TC.
Post by
Squishalot
Devastate is better for faster single target threat, but not necessary, considering at lower levels, early threat isn't an issue after the first Devastate in the first place.
I run with Revenge / Devastate, at the moment, but I'm planning on swapping out Devastate for Cleaving as soon as I get around to it. The problem with Resonating Power is that it's still a cooldown based ability - you can't get extra AoE threat from it.
Post by
razzem
I ran with Revenge for my first glyph, and was glad that I had it at lower levels.... free HS is rad when you are low level.
When you are doing dungeons, though, most of the time you are Cleaving and TCing on CD. Therefore I run with Cleave and Resonating Power and absolutely love them. I didn't think that I'd have Resonating Power for as long as I have, but it's SO so nice to get a TC off at the start of a fight when you have almost no rage. Very under-rated glyph.
Post by
Zakkhar
I ran with Revenge for my first glyph, and was glad that I had it at lower levels.... free HS is rad when you are low level.
The actual cost of HS is very frequent misunderstanding.
This misunderstanding comes form inability to comprehend Heroic strike mechanism.
Its not free. Its just 9-15 rage cheaper.
When you are doing dungeons, though, most of the time you are Cleaving and TCing on CD. Therefore I run with Cleave and Resonating Power and absolutely love them. I didn't think that I'd have Resonating Power for as long as I have, but it's SO so nice to get a TC off at the start of a fight when you have almost no rage. Very under-rated glyph.
Resonating power is absolute crap for a major glyph slot you can use it, but please dont advertise it for others.
As for mthe op. Glyph of sunder and glyph of devastate dont stack. Well they do, but not in the way you imagine. Its not 2 sunders on 2 targets. Its 2 sunders on main target and 1 sunder on off target.
Post by
razzem
Not sure what you are driving at but glyph of revenge makes your next HS cost no rage. That's awesome at lower levels.
As far as resonating power, you can say what you like, but when running lowbie dungeons and cleaving every swing and TC every CD, 5 less rage cost is a big deal. You may not like it it or have tried it leveling, but I have and it is quite helpful. For dungeon leveling, which is what this guy is talking about, it's a good glyph.
Post by
marklartank
Not sure what you are driving at but glyph of revenge makes your next HS cost no rage. That's awesome at lower levels.
As far as resonating power, you can say what you like, but when running lowbie dungeons and cleaving every swing and TC every CD, 5 less rage cost is a big deal. You may not like it it or have tried it leveling, but I have and it is quite helpful. For dungeon leveling, which is what this guy is talking about, it's a good glyph.
what i think zakkhar is getting at is the "hidden" cost of using HS since your next swing that would have generated rage now does not. a lot of people don't understand that.
it doesn't make so much difference in raids since offensive rage generation is pathetic when tanking at 80, but you will notice the loss at lower levels.
and as you said yourself, you are cleaving every swing, which makes HS irrelevant anyway.
Post by
Zakkhar
As far as resonating power, you can say what you like, but when running lowbie dungeons and cleaving every swing and TC every CD, 5 less rage cost is a big deal. You may not like it it or have tried it leveling, but I have and it is quite helpful. For dungeon leveling, which is what this guy is talking about, it's a good glyph.
If you have rage to cleave every swing - rage is plenty obviously. Cleave is extremly costly skill (similar to HS and similarly you probably dont understand its rage cost mechanism).
Drop those rage glyphs, they have no use other than your imagination.
Post by
Thror
Oh man, i wish my warriors melee swings would produce 9-15 rage. Pity its more in the range of 2-6.
I can not imagine in which dungeon does the tank get hit so hard that he can cleave every swing and TC every cooldown. I am lvl 50, and Sunken Temple, BRD and Maraudon still leave me with like three out of five global cooldowns used for some offensive ability. I can not even dream about cleave.
I think every glyph that somehow saves rage is useful at low levels. You dont need glyph of cleaving, TC is enough to hold AoE. Same with glyph of Sunder Armor. The glyphs that add more flashy to your abilities are nice, but glyphs that enable you to use abilities more often are far better imo.
Post by
44207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
Oh man, i wish my warriors melee swings would produce 9-15 rage. Pity its more in the range of 2-6.
You misunderstood. 9-15 rage cost i mentioned is the initial cost of heroic strike, with or without Focused Rage/Imp Heroic strike. Its the only rage glyph of revenge actually spares.
As for rage at low levels, i dunno what you guys talk about. I was leveling back in TBC without shield spec, without revamped shield block, without charge in def stance, thunder clap hitting like a wet noodle and max 4 targets, no shockwave, no glyphs, without all the little toys prot warriors got now (no dual spec either, i was fury back than). Had no rage problems at all. All due to 2 silly easy to use abilities. Berserker rage and bloodrage.
Blizz is making this game easier and easier and its still too hard for some?
Post by
Thror
Meh. Not having enough resource to fuel all the attacks i would possibly like to use =/= hard gameplay. Things still die bloody fast, and aggro is still mine.
I was just saying that at low rage scales the rage cost reduction glyphs are pretty good. Sure they are a total waste at lvl 80.
Post by
razzem
Naw, Z, I get the mechanic. It's just like Maul and Heroic Strike. It replaces the autoattack, and you don't generate rage from it. It's a rage dump. Its good of you to point that out for people that don't get it, but don't forget that it still saves you the upfront *cost* of HS, which is still a good chunk of rage.
Leveling in dungeons is all about aoe, and your 2 biggest hitters/threat-holders are cleave and Thunderclap.
Using Glyph of Resonating Power saves
5 rage every 6 seconds
. To compare, Anger Management gives
2 rage every 6 seconds
(converting from 1 rage per 3). So if you want to look at from a numbers point of view, this glyph is worth 2.5 talent points if you use TC every CD.
Leveling in dungeons, you do use TC every CD. At least I do. Therefore, it is a worthwhile glyph. If you have better suggestions for leveling glyphs, I'd love to hear them, because I couldn't find any for prot that were any better by a long shot.
edit: I can not imagine in which dungeon does the tank get hit so hard that he can cleave every swing and TC every cooldown. You need to pull more :P Seriously though, sometimes I'll run out of rage cleaving away on packs, but then I use Berserker Rage to gain more back. I really, really like glyph of cleave for leveling because it can make up for weak dps as well, not to mention that several dps classes don't get there aoe until late in the game (cat druids come to mind).
Post by
Zakkhar
Using Glyph of Resonating Power saves
5 rage every 6 seconds
. To compare, Anger Management gives
2 rage every 6 seconds
(converting from 1 rage per 3). So if you want to look at from a numbers point of view, this glyph is worth 2.5 talent points if you use TC every CD.
Its a manipulation. Glyph of resonating power doesnt give you any rage. It just spares you some rage in a skill if you use it every cd. AoE situation either are very short and things drop fast, or some thing drop some others dont, leaving you with 2 targets at relatively high percentage of hp. Do you thunder clap there as well? Do you use it on bosses every cd too?
Anger management actually not only gives you rage, while in combat, it also delays its decay out of combat. Its still pretty meh talent. It benefits any skill you wish too use and you are only limited with 100 rage pool.
Nobody takes Anger management in any protection build. People use Focused rage instead. Compare your glyph to Focused rage - everything else is manipulation. I sure can compare anything to crap Unbridled Wrath but whats the point?
Leveling in dungeons, you do use TC every CD. At least I do. Therefore, it is a worthwhile glyph. If you have better suggestions for leveling glyphs, I'd love to hear them, because I couldn't find any for prot that were any better by a long shot.
You dont. Or if you do you shouldnt, unless doing everything for the sake of usefullness of the glyph.
As for someone stating that at lower levels weapon hit is 2-6 rage. Its just rubbish, unless you count glancing blows with a dagger. Rage generation depends on a level. Check
this
and
this
.
Post by
razzem
Z, like you said, you leveled during BC. It's a different story now with the new looking for dungeon tool.
Yeah, to hold threat against mages and warlocks (and the moonkins that are cropping up) in dungeons, yeah, I'm using it every CD. You cant hold aggro against them if you don't.
You can try to reduce the numbers, but it's really not a competition. At 50 you'll have focused rage ALSO. The point of AM was to give an idea on how much rage it saves, which is a lot. edit: And no matter how you try to slice it, I'd rather save 5 rage every six second than get 1 rage every 3 seconds.
You are right on bosses, it isn't getting you as much, BUT, for all the instances from 20-80, how much time will be spent on Trash vs Bosses? 10% on bosses at most. And most likely much, much less.
I don't get what your beef is really. It's like you're trying to correct people who are leveling even though you don't offer any alternatives. We are talking about leveling, and it's like you're talking about min/maxing against raid bosses. The OP is talking about LEVEL 50 and about what glyphs to use as prot.
So why don't you suggest something since you are speaking with such authority on the subject? I await your 2 prot glyphs for dungeon leveling. Please, show me what you would choose.
Post by
Zakkhar
So why don't you suggest something since you are speaking with such authority on the subject? I await your 2 prot glyphs for dungeon leveling. Please, show me what you would choose.
I wouldnt need any glyphs for dungeon leveling really. With all those new toys you can do just fine without any glyphs. Its important that you notice that glyphing certain abilities you use most is not a must (while leveling), but a matter of available resources and fun. I like glyphs which change the ability or add new thing to it, over those which reduce the costs or add some rage.
If i have to i would prolly pick glyph of Blocking (because its awesome both mitigationwise and threatwise, while scaling wonderfully with the gear you have) and glyph of Devastate (especially considering recent changes to devastate).
Post by
328067
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
for now ilike resonating power 5 less rage on TC is wonderful for me, i can charge and TC and have rage for a dev. may work differently in raids but thats not what i was askin.
Erm are you using Berserker rage and Bloodrage properly?
Post by
328067
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
define propely i use em when i need em. i do what works for me. fact is if i have to start a pull at 0 rage theres no way im able to cleave soon at all.
Cleave is rage dump. Its normal you arent able to cleave at start, but when you Thunder clap and shield block the rage will keep comming.
it hits 2 targets and glyphed three. the content ive been running has many pulls with more than 3 mobs. in fact mostly,
Even with cleave, glyphed or not you still need to tab targets. Back in TBC Thunder clap was hitting like a wet noodle and only 4 targets max. It was nowhere near threat skill, you had to build agro by tab-sundering mobs, while ocasionally cleaving.
now that im 56, im getting dm east as my random. most pulls in there have up to like 8 lil sprout things and i TC every time its off CD just to hold aggro on em all.
They are non elites, even is some pulls a couple of them off you nothing bad should happen. This is what you are supposed to do. Cleave is rage dump, you cleave only at extensive rage and you get extensive rage by using shield block after thunder clap. 8 hits x 5 rage per gcd during 10s? You sure you are able to burn that much rage just with Tc (glyphed, lol) every cd and tab-devastating?
cleave waits on the next weapon swing and my current weapon is 2.7
There is no point in using slow weapon cleave at non elite mobs, unless you are close to rage cap.
I repeat cleave is a rage dump, not an ordinary move. With slow weapon its cost is even bigger, with not necesarily bigger threat output. Thats why warriors out there use fast weapons. But you can benefit from slow weapon as well - Devastate with tab is you strongest weapon.
AS thats a long wait to get threat tbh. when dev is instant and i can tab through my targets spreading sunders with the glyph all around rather quickly. i dont have any trouble holding aggro at all, period.
Good for you. Should thank your life changing glyph of resonation power. You didint glyph devastate, did you?
again my original wuestion was simply if dev glyph passed on two sunders to 2 targets it doesnt i researched myself.
Dev glyph does two things. It allows you to stack sunders faster increasing your damage with other abilities plus adds additional 5% of your Ap as threat.
If you have both Sunder and Dev glyph it does 2 stacks to your main target and 1 sunders to off target. There is no logical reason to expect 2 sunders on off target.
back to cleave it eats up my rage and i have to wait on it and it became a nuisance tbh.
Surprise! Cleave is a rage dump. It is supposed to eat your rage. The slowest weapon you have the more it eats (because the more you loose by making your next white swing yellow - yellow attacks dont generate any rage).
i found whats been working for is working better. may not be what works for others but it has been for me. i have a good machine and have real good latency. im able to tab and dev as rapidly as the gcd allows me.
Thats good for you. lets hope you learn the proper usage of Cleave as you learned Devastate.
of course my single target "rotation" is much different than multi mobs which is why i didnt opt for glyph of blocking its something that would only be usefull 10% of the time or less. where as resonating power works for me less rage on a talent i use as much as i can has been a blessing and when i didnt have it i suffered for it.
You are level 50 with slow weapon with currently buffed devastate, and no sword and board available yet, its obvious you arent using shield slams much. Wait 7 levels (or change a weapon for faster) and you will be spamming those Shield slams like crazy. At 60 you get damage shield as well, g of blocking will add some damage to that as well.
people play things slightly dif than others i found a technique that works and im stickin to it till it proves to fail. Fact is i do more dps than most dps in my groups which for some reason seems real sad to me.
People play things slightly different than other because they deliberately choose to not use certain abilities they dont understand.
It shouldnt be sad for you - old devastate did 50% of weapon damage, new does 120%. You have slow weapon and you are spamming it. No rogue can match you at this level, their SS spamming is limited by focus. Also not everyone get aoe abilities that soon.
Rogue ss on this level
<
Your devastate
Be glad they changed Thunder clap, be glad they buffed Devastate.
Shouldnt be sad you do most damage. Should be glad. More damage = more threat = faster runs.
I guess if i really check the reason Glyph of Resonating power is there, i guess the only point was warrior leveling. You use it for warr leveling. Good for you.
PS: I just checked your spec. Whoa..Puncture (meh talent), no Incite, Imp Disciplines (raid talent), Imp Spellreflection (pvp talent), no 1h weapon specialty (who needs 10% more damage bonus)...
I guess you no longer have to be great as talent distributing to be able to level fast. Stupid Blizz - this game is way too easy, i bet you could level with 0/0/0 just as well.
PS2: No offence.
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