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Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
01/52/18
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Post by
neomasterc
Currently, the top DKs in the world use 53/18 and 54/17. Most people with 53/18 spec sacrifices a point in UA for BcB.
From sims, Black Ice yields less dps per point vs UA, so the question is why BI instead of UA? I think the main reason is because UA requires you to BT every minute for maximum benefits, removing BT as a "OH-NO-I-NEED-RUNES" emergency button. Also, the length of the fight may cause the number of UA used to vary, thus causing inaccurate simulation. Subversion with my gear is simmed to be ~69 APE vs ~61 APE for BI. UA has 110 APE and BCB has 126 APE.
Following this, 1/52/18 actually theoretically does highest dps, and is reflected to be higher dps in the sims (Kahorie).
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jzZG0IxAbczf0cuzAofM0hxc
The question is, is it truly better in a raid environment? the one point in subversion will probably make threat a non-issue for adds and boss.
Anyone got any comments for this spec?
Post by
426948
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
Currently highest dps in the world is probably someone in Ensidia, and they probably do somthing around Blood/Unholy, no frost. Never frost. Ever. :)
Yes I know. Unholy is easily higher. And no its not ensidia.
However, there are times when guilds require players to be frost to provide IIT to the raid.
No I dont want to use GoD, No I dont want to spec unholy.
All i want is the top DW frost spec that provides IIT and min/maxes dmg output.
If you believe one spec is better, please explain.
Post by
495174
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
If your issue is IIT, I believe there are other means of obtaining the haste buff. (Shaman Totems? Not 100% sure)
Stop telling me to go unholy. I was one of those pulling 10k+ as unholy all the time. Yes I have shadow's edge and yes I do retarded damage as unholy. However, I just switched from unholy to DW frost due to guild demands. Yes I have to play frost. No I can't rely on an enh shammy.
Blood is also on top with unholy. Actually, the top blood DK beat the top unholy DK on festergut 25 (New patchwerk).
I was hoping to find criticisms and comments about this spec but it seems like this is a "LETS GO PLAY UNHOLY" thread again.
Post by
Zarra
With my gear, RAWR is saying that the 18points in unholy is a dps increase. It sounds like you have a lot of good gear and word says (EJ-Rawr!) that a full unholy subspec is better for icc gear, with no points in Subversion.
Post by
neomasterc
With my gear, RAWR is saying that the 18points in unholy is a dps increase. It sounds like you have a lot of good gear and word says (EJ-Rawr!) that a full unholy subspec is better for icc gear, with no points in Subversion.
Rawr often has inaccurate calculations.
I obtain my data solely from kahories.
Post by
146010
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
I would personally work with this as a base:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZG0exIbczf0chzAofM0hxc
- 0/51/18+2. Given that frost already HAS a good crit rate, I question the value of extra ranks of KM. Yes, it buffs the crit rate for a HB, but imo you might want to drop the last 2 points elsewhere. Subversion if you have threat problems for example.
Using talent point calculations, KM yields a higher APE value per point than BI, thus it is theoretically more beneficial to drop 2 point in BI and place then in Subversion or BCB. or even keep UA.
Post by
146010
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
Fair enough, as I said I'm no expert on the DPS side of DW frost. But my point about UBA remains, just the same. :)
if you pop it every time its up, you will gain ~3% str overall. 3% str=~60 str
60str =~120 AP *0.71 dps/AP (Calculated)=~ 85.2
Thats a minimal of 85.2 dps increase w/o buffs or timed with CDs.
Post by
146010
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
Again, popping it involves finding a spare GCD to spend on it. Is the dw frost rotation not quite tight? And therefore doing so would probably involve wasting a GCD from your actual rotation to get it up and running.
On paper it might seem ok, but can you really hit it immediately every time it's off cooldown without fail? Probably not. That extra point going into a passive will be much, much less hassle and won't require you interrupting your rotation to get it off. And on paper, the DPS 'loss' will be marginal.
Go ahead and pick it up if you really want, but I think you'll be dissappointed. *shrug*
Heh there is no rotation for DW. I can do whatever I want whenever I want.
I dont need to interupt anything.
popping it BT>UA while blood runes are on CD then /cancelaura blood tap to get it back to a blood rune on CD.
Doing so will not interupt your priority system at all, especially in times where KM and rime doesnt proc.
Post by
351490
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
ok, ill keep this simple for you, there IS a rotation for DW, its called a priority ROTATION
popping BT>UA DOES screw up your priority ROTATION because you are skipping out on two FS, It also screws up your rotation because it doesn't care if you use'd a BS it will still turn back into a Blood rune after, what is it? 15 seconds or something? this means, you will miss out on an Oblit (because there is always a time where you spam oblit 3 times in a row no matter what proc's happened)
And finally, i really really really couldn't care less if unholy was the top dps spec, if i wanted to play unholy I WOULD GO AND PLAY UNHOLY, being frost never stopped me out dpsing unholy and blood DK's.
First of all, you are using UA wrong. BT>UA when blood runes are on CD then /cancelaura blood tap. You dont lose an obliterate at all.
If you're screwing up your priority system you are doing something wrong.
In terms of top tier raiding, frost is underperforming compared to unholy/ blood DKs. That is obvious. But the raid damage increase from IIT outweighs your personal damage, and that is why you go frost. Not for big sexy crits but for raid buff.
Post by
351490
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
even if you still use it you are missing out on 2 FS, do u want to miss out on them?
and, i don't know if u noticed this or not, but you DW as frost, you don't get big sexy crits, u just get lots of crits. And again, i really dont care what the spec the DK who can do the most dps in was using, i couldn't care less, i rotate blood and Frost because i enjoy it, its my personal preference, im not going to go with the flock and run an unholy DK just cause some guy who lives in his mums basement logged this biggest numbers as unholy, and last time i checked it was a blood DK who was top dps on fester
I don't get RP capped, so technically I'm not missing out on 2 FS.
I play frost to buff the raid, as well as push as much damage as I possibly can.
I know I can't possibly top dps as frost, but doing higher dps helps with raid progression, and with heroic ICC 25s coming up, its probably helpful.
Post by
351490
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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