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Arcane Mages and Haste
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Post by
299735
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Post by
200565
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Post by
Squishalot
Cool, I'll rework that into consideration.
Post by
Squishalot
I've fixed up the formulae in my spreadsheet, and I'll rerun the numbers soon.
Fyuu - for you:
Assuming you guarantee a MB proc, unhasted:
(all damage assumes glyphed AB, T10 haste proc)
(all damage is base and ignores crits)
AB# Cast Time AB Dmg MBAM Dmg DPS
1 4.464s 4150 9369 3028
2 6.696s 9047 10798 2964
3 9.196 14691 12228 2927
4 11.696s 21082 13657 2970
5 14.196s 28220 13657 2949
6 16.696s 35358 13657 2935
7 19.196s 42496 13657 2925
What this suggests is that other than AB1 MBAM (which is unlikely and probably a DPS decrease if you need to wait to confirm your MB proc anyway), AB4 MBAM is the highest DPS output. But no, not by any significant amount. We're talking 2%, compared to huge mana savings.
It's also worth noting that this confirms that AB spam is a DPS decrease.
That 2% gap stays fairly consistent as your haste increases, up until you get to around 80% haste (i.e. 1.8 = (1+gearhaste%)*(1+talenthaste%)*(1+buffhaste%) etc), and you can squeeze the start of your 4th AB into the T10 proc. At this point, it goes up to about 3.5% :P
Edit: AB spam is a DPS decrease until you can get 1.025sec ABs (144% haste), at which point, it's equal DPS.... and you'll go OOM in 15 seconds flat :)
Post by
Fyuu
You're a champion, Squishy. ;)
Post by
Squishalot
Sorry to bug, but can I get some mana costs for Arcane Blast at L80? ;p
And is current practice to use Icy Veins at the same time as Bloodlust, or to time them separately? Just to serve as a baseline to compare to.
Post by
160231
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Post by
200565
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Post by
oberondreaming
as for your second point- isn't that the whole purpose? we're supposed to be finding the average bonus from procs over a long period of time so that we can see when they'll be useful.
Not exactly. With 2t10, there are breaking points for haste where you get in another AB in your standard rotation that benefits from Pushing the Limit.
If you average out haste procs/cooldowns, you're going to miscalculate where these points occur.
Post by
200565
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Post by
oberondreaming
wait. there's always going to a be a bit of uncertainty. but i don't think we're disagreeing... let's say you have to make a choice between black magic and 63 sp on your mh, and you're wearing 2t10. you're just under the haste point where you can squeeze one more AB in while still benefiting from the haste buff of t10, and the effective haste of black magic would put you over it. you won't get the extra AB in every single time, but you will get it in some reasonable % of the time.
Right, just as long as you don't average out the Black Magic proc over all time and say "Hey look, I only need X haste to be able to always get four ABs in during PtL."
Does that make sense?
Post by
200565
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Post by
oberondreaming
the thing is, most people won't have item haste procs, because for most mages, 63 sp is a better choice than black magic, and abyssal rune will be replaced fast.
True but it's also important not to do it with things like Icy Veins or Bloodlust/Heroism either.
Post by
Squishalot
At no point was I going to average out Black Magic procs, for example.
If you see what I was trying to do earlier (see mathy post on page 2), I'm taking the expected uptime of T10 2pc to work out how often you'll have an extra 12% haste. From there, you could work out what the DPS benefit is of having Bloodlust / Icy Veins on top, and decide when you'd want to plan it.
Black Magic would just be icing on the cake. You'd have to measure it's value based on an average of when you'd have the other buffs on you.
Post by
200565
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Post by
160231
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Post by
oberondreaming
I understood "it" to mean "averaging out haste effects".
But Squishy confirmed he's aware of that, so it's all well. Sorry for making a fuss over nothing.
Yep basically that.
It might easier to explain it using something besides haste. When a healer talks about
Purified Lunar Dust
, for instance, they talk about it having an effective Mp5 of about 90-100, because it has roughly a 33% uptime. Thus the amount of Mp5 during the proc can be divided by three to give the overall average Mp5 of the item.
If you try to do this with haste, and say something like IV gives 20% haste with a 11.1% uptime for an overall average of 2.2% haste, then you're going to run into problems, because of the way haste works and the way 2t10 interacts with the rotation.
But since Squishy has made it clear that he gets this it's not going to be an issue. (And if my brain didn't have an often times irrational aversion to reading other people's math, I probably would have noticed that earlier.)
Post by
Squishalot
But since Squishy has made it clear that he gets this it's not going to be an issue. (And if my brain didn't have an often times irrational aversion to reading other people's math, I probably would have noticed that earlier.)
All good, I feel the same way quite often too :)
I'm going to run into a slight problem, since a haste proc will decrease the time spent in a non-T10 haste stage, by virtue of the fact that you'll get to your MBAM faster. But having said that, it's relatively easy to model. I think. Actually playing with haste calculations makes me realise why nobody's bothered to do this in the past :P
Post by
Fyuu
squish: mana cost:
AB1: 215; AB2: 591; AB3: 967; AB4: 1343. AM is free with MBarr, without it's 953 mana (it's not affected mana-wise by AB stacks).
Be wary that talents such as
Arcane Focus
effect mana costs.
Post by
299735
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