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Post by
JeremyRush
I am a fan of Varian, and these sound files make him sound as awesome as he really is.
I'm sure Garrosh will turn out to be something like this, but then who would cause the inner faction conflict?
Post by
Fojar38
don't forget this bro'
this was the last straw
after reading that page, varian effective imidietly jumped to my top10 most hated list of wow characters. (though he's kinda low on that list, there are a lot of characters i hate more than him)
Yes, curse Varian for not reading up on Garona via wowwiki like the rest of us!
Post by
Fojar38
this was the last straw
Eh, that was a few months ago; since then, Battle for Undercity and Ulduar happened heh.
Yeah, but he was acting like a complete %^&*!@ in those events too. This event in icecrown is probably the only attempt I'd seen him actully acting like a king.. if it last though remains to be seen.
Which indicates that, like most Varian haters, you haven't read the comics and are arguing out of ignorance.
The event in Icecrown is actually MORE in character than his Ulduar and Undercity persona's. The common factor that people keep forgetting about his Ulduar and Undercity persona's is that Varian was *pi.ssed off* during those events. That's one of the things that makes Varian more endearing than Thrall to me; Varian isn't Ghandi: he realistically gets angry at times.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I am a fan of Varian, and these sound files make him sound as awesome as he really is.
I'm sure Garrosh will turn out to be something like this, but then who would cause the inner faction conflict?
You know I think every Varian fan is suddenly jumping to the conclusion that Varian has completely changed his take on his hatred of orcs and now he's gone from insane rageaholic to devout holy good guy. He hasn't, all thats happened is he gives Saurfang, who has just had to kill his own child, enough respect to take his body home. This doesn't change his ethos though, it just proves he has two personalities.
Which indicates that, like most Varian haters, you haven't read the comics and are arguing out of ignorance.
The event in Icecrown is actually MORE in character than his Ulduar and Undercity persona's. The common factor that people keep forgetting about his Ulduar and Undercity persona's is that Varian was *pi.ssed off* during those events. That's one of the things that makes Varian more endearing than Thrall to me; Varian isn't Ghandi: he realistically gets angry at times.
Forgive my bluntness, but given most of your posts are aimmed at saying the alliance are the good guys and horde bad guys, I'll take this with a pitch of salt. I have read the comics, and certainly seen enough of him going all emo, blaming the horde for everything, jumping to conclusions without them without resolve, and making an ass out of himself.
Put it this way. When an orc does something just, good, noble and heroic, most alliance fans will shrug it off saying 'pff, so, there still horde', but when king chin does the only 'right' thing I've seen, its meant to mean something?
Post by
Fojar38
You know I think every Varian fan is suddenly jumping to the conclusion that Varian has completely changed his take on his hatred of orcs and now he's gone from insane rageaholic to devout holy good guy. He hasn't, all thats happened is he gives Saurfang, who has just had to kill his own child, enough respect to take his body home. This doesn't change his ethos though, it just proves he has two personalities.
No, most Varian fans maintain that this has been his personality all along, and that his actions in the Undercity was an exception to the rule.
(And this is the Alliance version by the way; Saurfang didn't have to kill his own son in this.)
Forgive my bluntness, but given most of your posts are aimmed at saying the alliance are the good guys and horde bad guys, I'll take this with a pitch of salt. I have read the comics, and certainly seen enough of him going all emo, blaming the horde for everything, jumping to conclusions without them without resolve, and making an ass out of himself.
And forgive *my* bluntness, but most of your posts that I've seen have been aimmed at shaping the Horde into a bunch of poor persecuted refugees who have never done anything to antagonize Varian and the Alliance ever.
If you have read the comics, then maybe you should look through them again. You said Varian has never acted like a king, which is flat out wrong, and is shown in both the comics and in-game (if you rolled an Alliance character)
I would assume that by "jumping to conclusions" you are referring to Varian's reaction to Garona in Theramore. Did you ever think to yourself that perhaps Cho'gall chose Garona and gave her the orders "You must kill Varian at all costs" for a reason? I think it was because either Cho'gall or C'thun knew that Garona was the only individual on Azeroth who could stir such a reaction from him.
Think about it, King Llane was killed under the pretenses that "It's okay, Garona is a good orc and a friend." And now, in Theramore, Garona shows up to kill Varian while Varian is meeting with "Thrall, who's a good orc and a friend." Anybody would put two and two together; again, Varian doesn't have access to Wowwiki like the rest of us.
And I'm really getting sick of people calling Varian "emo." He hasn't done anything to exhibit being emo at all.
Put it this way. When an orc does something just, good, noble and heroic, most alliance fans will shrug it off saying 'pff, so, there still horde', but when king chin does the only 'right' thing I've seen, its meant to mean something?
On the contrary; most Alliance fans I've met still treat Thrall like the big green jesus that he is. If anything, your reaction to Varian *sparing the life of the Orc who just attacked his men* and allowing him to take the body of his son is indicative of what I've come to expect from the Warcraft 3 generation of Horde players: "We can do no wrong and everything is the Alliance's fault because recognizing that makes me super special and exhibits my stunning ability to like non-humans."
Post by
Skreeran
While I don't blame him for assuming that the Horde was behind the Theramore attack when it happened, he should know by this point in the comics that Garona was not to blame. I don't expect him to straight up forgive her (that's a big request, even for a good person. Imagine if Thrall found out that Blackmoore was mind-controlled. I doubt even he'd have an immensely hard time forgiving), but I do expect him to stop pursuing her death.
Likewise, by this point, he should know that the Horde was not behind that attack.
And yes, I am happy with Varian in Icecrown. I didn't like the p*ssed off version that we see so much, and it's good to see him showing an orc compassion. I honestly never thought we'd see him do that so soon.
Post by
Rankkor
don't forget this bro'
this was the last straw
after reading that page, varian effective imidietly jumped to my top10 most hated list of wow characters. (though he's kinda low on that list, there are a lot of characters i hate more than him)
Yes, curse Varian for not reading up on Garona via wowwiki like the rest of us!
no, cursing varian for not listening to valeera wich is his best friend, and she knows garona is inocent, curse him for not listening to jaina who is not only his friend but also the main reason he's restored, and she knows garona is inocent.
but more than anything, curse varian for acusing thrall of sending garona wihtout a single spec of evidence bro'
one thing is that he hates garona for killing his father, and another is to assume she was sent by the horde just cuz she's an orc.
a king that does that is an idiot, and I can't stand idiots.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, you've got to admit, in a combat situation you can't really be expected to do all your research, and so I don't blame him for assuming it was the Horde (who knows? Even if it wasn't Thrall who sent her, it could still be some warlord who stands to profit from the war...) at that point.
However, if we find out that he still blames the Horde, then yes, I blame him for not listening to Maraad/Jaina/Valeera.
Post by
Rankkor
erm, during combat, thrall didn't do any research, and still he didnt' assumed the alliance was behind theramoore just because he was being atacked by humans night-elves, dwarves, and gnomes.... (I wonder if there are draenei on the twilling hammer)
Post by
Skreeran
Indeed, but Thrall trusts Jaina with his life because of past experiences.
Varian saw the exact same half-orc who had betrayed his father seemingly betraying him.
Was it a correct assumption? No. Do I blame him? No.
However,
now
he should know that it was not the Horde and he should reconsider peace.
Post by
Rankkor
now he should know that both garona is inocent, and that the horde was not behind theramoore, but still, he treats us as if we're bloodthirsty monsters (I haven't forgotten his remarks on the tournament, "can we trust these savages to keep themselves in chekc?" or the worst one "I didn't come here to watch animals tear at each other's throats")
as far as I can tell, he acted noble towards saurfang, because he's a father too, and he kinda "placed himself on saurfang's shoes", so his reaction to saurfang didn't surprised me.
what did surprised me was his reaction to saurfang JUNIOR (wait, that's not fair, let's have a little respect for the dead, Draenosh Saurfang)
he called Draenosh "a hero" and said he "fought with honor"
now these remarks are what surprised me, from lore point of view, the time passed from the start of the argent tournament, and the siege on ICC, can't be more than a couple of months at best.
so he goes from considering orcs "savages" and "animals" to call an orc "a noble" and a "hero"?
a puzzle indeed.
Post by
Skreeran
As for that, I still say it's because he fought side by side with Bolvar.
Bolvar clearly enjoyed a friendly rivalry/comradery with the Horde commander... ("I was wondering if you'd show up..." and then they both walked side by side to the gate as comrades. In addition, Bolvar reacted especially strongly after Draenosh died... "*gasp, serious face* You will pay... for all the lives you've stolen... traitor.")
Varian says that the survivors told him what happened. I imagine that they also spoke of the Draenosh and his heroics and the respect their commander showed for him.
Adn considering Bolvar was like a brother to Varian, I imagine that Varian respects the honor of his "brother's" comrade.
And then there's the fact that Varian's own troops speak of Saurfang's power and honor. It's only natural that Varian would respect that and the honor of his son.
Post by
Rankkor
T_T I wish my orc shaman could be a saurfang too.
the whole damn family is the living breathing definition of awesomeness.
from broxigar, varok, and draenosh (and of course varok's wife, who's a billion times better than mankirk's wife) all of them, they represent the best of us.
of course thrall's familiy doesn't stay behind, garad, durotan, and thall himself.
it is these values what drawed me to the horde in the first place.
strenght, honor, courage, tradition, redemption.
all these I'll miss in cata if blizz betrays us.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, I've decided that even if the whole Horde starts following Garrosh's ways, Nakresh and Kitanga will honor Saurfang and Thrall by never giving up.
I've thought about rerolling Alliance or plain quitting if the Horde goes all bloodthirsty, but then I thought: Would Saurfang reroll or quit if it got to this point? No. He'd keep on cleaving and fighting for what he
knows
is right, no matter who's with him.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Heh... It's hard not to be emotionally invested with the story when I'm already emotionally invested in my characters... :P
Post by
Rankkor
same here, I got a great love for the horde.
because before warcraft was even invented, on every fantasy setting, orcs were as they were depicted on Lord of the rings.
Coward, skinny, deformed, freaky, backstabing, bloodthirsty, sons of B1tches, who would gladly sell their moms for a copper coin.
every game depicted this, from dungeons and dragons, to might and magic.
on every incarnation of orcs, they were allways the bad plp.
on warcraft, was the first that depicted them as robust, muscular, green folk, and while they were evil on warcraft 1, somehow I cound't resist to have them as my favorite side (of course, grunts yelling STOP POKING ME! were a big reason too xD)
then their backstory became to unfold itself, and to this day, warcraft was the first fantasy setting that actually depicted orcs as people who have a strong sence of honor.
their entire culture is reminicent of the mongolians (of wich I'm a huge fan, blame age of empires II for that xD)
they are the most unique incarnation of orcs you can find out of every single fantasy setting game or book.
heck they became so popular and loved, that after warcraft, every fantasy setting has dropped the stereotypical Tolkien orc, in favor of the green muscular orc.
and to this day, every new RPG; or fantasy based game, has green orcs, that guide themselves by strenght and honor.
this is wikipedia's description of Tolkien's orcs (wich suck) and warcraft orcs (wich rock)
Tolkien orc:
In Tolkien's writings, Orcs are of human shape, of varying size but always smaller than Men, ugly, filthy, with a taste for human flesh. They are fanged, bow-legged and long-armed, and some have dark skin as if burned, They are portrayed as miserable, crafty and vicious beings.
Warcraft's orcs:
In the Warcraft computer game series Orcs are depicted as more ethically and socially complex than in most renditions. The great Orcish race is a savage but noble society made of shamanistic and fierce warriors
Warcraft Orcs are humanoid, but prodigiously muscled and green with broad noses and distinctive tusked mouths. Male orcs are significantly larger than humans, around 6 and a half feet tall when standing straight. Females are slightly larger than a human female, and while much more slender than their male counterparts, they are nonetheless well-muscled. Female orcs' tusks are very small to nearly nonexistent, arguably more exaggerated canines than tusks. Orc warriors are characterized by wearing scant armor with horned helmets and wielding axes as weapons. Warcraft is one of the few settings in which Orcs are not inherently evil, and, after significant plot developments in the latest Warcraft games, can even be heroic
it seems blizz kinda regrets their desition to go against the flow, and wanan revert us to tolkien orcs =( wich feels like a tottal punch in the crotch.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Morec0
Well... you might want to re-add coward to that.
Post by
Adamsm
And yes, I am happy with Varian in Icecrown. I didn't like the p*ssed off version that we see so much, and it's good to see him showing an orc compassion. I honestly never thought we'd see him do that so soon.QFT.
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