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Lady Proudmoore - Delusional or intuitive?
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Post by
Skreeran
I have no iea why everyone likes telling themselves that all of Lordaeron's people are now the Forsaken.Most of them are Scourge. A very, very,
very
small number of them managed to get out in time.
And the Forsaken broke off of the Scourge in larger numbers, if you take their ability to beat a Dreadlord's army alone into account.
And there's more Forsaken waking up. There's no more Lordaeron survivors popping into existence.
The Forsaken deserve it the least out of everyone, I am tired of people labeling them as innocent people just wanting to survive.Nope. The Forsaken deserve it the most. The Scourge shouldn't have it. The Forsaken have more numbers than the survivors, and the Forsaken were the ones who fought to kick the Scourge out of Tirisfal.
The Forsaken would have never gotten Lordaeron back if it was not for the humans, don't start that garbage.Correction: The Forsaken would have never gotten
Capital City
back if not for the humans.
The Forsaken were still the ones who kicked the Scourge out. Them and the Scarlet Crusade. And the Scarlet Crusade is controlled by Balnazzar, so I don't think they should have it either.
And considering they are usuing it to plot genocide, I thinks its only fair that the human survivors get it.Not anymore.
And if Sylvanas has any type of claim, then so does Varian, being a trusted ally of Terenas, "like a son to him", or the fact that Lordaeron refuges live in Stormwind.Nope. It's the
Forsaken
that have the claim. And they've chosen Sylvanas as their leader.
As I am sure the orcs have a huge distaste for the humans.Well, based on Saurfang, Eitrigg, Orgrim, Drek'thar, and Grom's attitudes (Grom and Orgrim mainly in LotC), they just want to be left alone.
Me thought that was the Grimtotem taruen.The Grimtotems did, and we killed them. The deserters also did. Paval Reethe ring a bell?
And I have no idea where you are getting "few" from.As in, relative to Theramore's general population, there aren't very many deserters.
Seriously, how many times does a guy need to almost lose his head at every 12x12 corner before he has the right to be wary?I'd certainly be sending emmisaries instead of going personally. Perhaps I'd invite Thrall to meet with me in Wyrmrest or the the Crusader's Coliseum. Dalaran and Theramore remain viable options as well.
I'd certainly keep it secret and ask him to leave Garrosh behind to avoid fights breaking out.
Seriously, the meetings being disrupted by third parties does not equate to peace being impossible.
Welcome to Theramore. Have you come to help the Alliance?She is a part of the Alliance, but they cannot tell Theramore what to do. She's not one of Varian's subjects. If she wants to work peace out with the Horde, she's well within her rights to do that.
Not up for disscussion, Stormwind was not chosen because its not close enough for the Scourge/Legion, and if it was farther away, Varian would not be as mad for the First and Second war because he would not have suffered as much. Like Jaina.Sure it's up for discussion. What do you think Varian would have done if he were put in Jaina's shoes?
I think we'd all be demon food.
He did not want to because he would be going against his old friends son.No, it was because he would be arrested for treason if he attacked the king's son.
I doubt he would have let Arthas kill 25,000 people just because the murderer was an old friend's son. It was his oath to serve the king that stopped him. Jaina didn't have an oath, but he was still the king's son, and she couldn't harm him without facing serious charges.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Your lieing to your self Skreeran, and you know it.
There is in no place saying that many died, survivors were discribbed as "pouring" into Khaz Modan and Azeroth (Southern Eastern Kingdoms)And where is this?
Arthas killed the entirety of Capital City and Stratholme, and that's in addition to those killed by Kel'thuzad's forces, and the Scourge that stayed their when Arthas went to Quel'thalas.
By all accounts, Lordaeron was nearly wiped off the map. There were very few survivors.
I hate to break it to you, but Garithos destroyed several undead bastions as well.I hate to break it to you, but Garithos and his men was forced to serve Detheroc. They weren't doing much.
Well, those Scarlet Crusaders who managed to free themselves joined the Alliance, and see what I also said above.
The humans deserve it. Always have, always will.The people who's land it was deserve it, regardless of their state of life. Just because they're dead humans doesn't mean they have to give up their land.
Not proven yet.Yes, it's proven. The Kor'kron has stopped them from producing Blight, and that's their only way of trying genocide without the greater Horde's help.
No, Sylvanas made herself leader, the Forsaken are mainly human, so it does not matter if they are a little more higher in numbers, they can be high elves, orcs, or any other race the scourge came accross.Most of the Forsaken are humans, and they allow Sylvanas to rule on their land. The population of California are
mainly
natives, and there are also immigrants, and they elected an immigrant governer. Doesn't mean that Arnold Schwarzenegger has no claim to govern California.
Most orcs would go back to the old ways if it was not for those people, and you know it.
And if you don't, then thats ok. Metzen said it himself.Gimme a link. Put up or shut up.
To late.That's all you have?
War will kill thousands. Peace could save thousands. Varian has chosen war over two (only two) peace meetings disrupted by third parties.
You don't know that, we might even come to a agreement.
Even Jaina and Thrall were not to hot about the idea at first.That's what he did when Yogg-Saron was threatening to eat the world. It's not a very far stretch to believe he'd do the same with Archimonde.
And then we'd all be demon food. Yay Varian.
And Thrall seemed pretty open to it. It was Jaina that objected, but even she saw how much it was needed. Varian can't.
Post by
Patty
Can I just say - Keep things civil.
This is really $%^&ing me off. Some people may want to re-read rules before posting and flaming in my thread, so keep any discussions polite. People know who I'm talking to...
Post by
166613
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Indeed. ;)
There's no evidence that ANY of the Alliance leaders feel that Lady Proudmore has betrayed the Alliance (which includes King Varian).I would also like to expand upon this.
All Varian's fans always complain that Jaina teleported him away.
But... Varian didn't...
Varian, thus far, still sees Jaina as an asset. Hence him taking her everywhere with him.
Or maybe he just likes her %$#s.
Post by
Patty
Agreed. If Varian thought she was such a stupid &*!@#, he would take one of his Gladiator buddies or Magni instead. He obviously thinks of Jaina highly.
Of course, he might just be interested in her rack...
Post by
Adamsm
Realpolitik often trumps law, and indeed, since Lord Aiden was a noble of Lordaeron, the 'Alliance' part of the above was merely for show, and hence not a precedent for punishing people outside your kingdom, yet in the Alliance.QFT, plus you know, Pernolde betrayed everyone, while Jaina is keeping people alive, or at least those who know peace is more important then meaningless never-ending war.
Post by
HiVolt
This seems to be a lot of circular arguing.
Post by
46491
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
To quote Bruce:
Lay seige to Theramore? "What are all those Horde doing here? "Umm, providing supplies and offering full protection if Theramore joins the Horde...and their troops don't have to cross an entire ocean." An edict you can't enforce is worthless.
Post by
166613
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
HiVolt
Sylvanas promised Garithos that she would see to it the humans get thier lands back, and we were told from the start that she had no intention.
Is it just me or is it odd that this is defending Garithos... the most xenophobic, racist idiot in the entirety of Warcraft?
He got exactly what he deserved, and the people who were following him were guilty by association.
Post by
Skreeran
If they were nerlay wiped of the map, then why are there Lordaeron survivors everywhere?They aren't everywhere. There's a few in Stormwind and then there's Theramore. That's about it.
I hate to break it to you, but he was forced while he was fighting the undead.
He was fighting them for about a year, actually.Indeed.
The Forsaken did just about the same amount of fighting as Garithos' forces, but then also have been dealing with the Scourge for 6 years more now.
You are really #$%^ing me off.Sorry?
Sylvanas promised Garithos that she would see to it the humans get thier lands back, and we were told from the start that she had no intention.So? She lied. I don't think she a perfect leader, nor even a leader that represents the Horde at large.
However, betraying someone who would have betrayed her just as quickly is hardly a capital offense, as far as I'm concerned. Garithos was an %^&*!@# (his own men even say so), and he got what was coming to him.
Now Varian is finally going to hand it to that stuied elf #$%^&, and we will get Greymane's help in Catalsym :PReally? As far as I know, Undercity will stay Horde, and Sylvanas is coming back in Cataclysm... :P
And Varian is fighting to avenge Garithos? I guess that makes sense. He can be a racist, after all...
It does not really matter, there were clearly two options placed in frount of Varian:
1.Let the Alliace suffer and keep trying to fight the Scourge while they ambush us.
2. Make a difference and not let those who the Horde did not even care were dragged into thier labs to be torn to shreads, and let the Alliance finally get to fight back.Ooorrrrr...
3. Don't trust the Horde, but stay on the defensive. Don't team up with the Horde, but don't instigate anything with them either and focus on the real threat.
Lawlz, this thread has turned into a "Humans vs Forsaken "and "Varian is right" thread
It was supposed to be about Jaina :/I know. Why don't you address Bruce's arguments. I like those.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
And as far as I know, Varian is setting up campains against the Forsaken, and Greymane is taking the fight to the Forsaken.
I just want Sylvanas' carrass to hang in a reclaimed Lordaeron as a symbol of the Alliance fighting back. Greymane is defending himself(hmm sounds familiar to another), but no where have they said there making a push to 'reclaim Lordaeron', in fact, that's probably why Garrosh has created the new Warsong Offensive base there in Trisfal.
Post by
Skreeran
Oh gee, I don't know... considering Stormind's population went from 25,000 to 200,000 after the survivors showed up, and this is just one city, I think they have enough to retake the lands that belong to themWhere exactly are you getting these figures?
Also, I did some research. According to Adam Loyd, one of the writers of the RPG books, "pg. 13 - Stormwind's population is incorrect. Change it to 25,000."
What I want to know is why the Forsaken want Gilneas and Stromgarde when they have no claim... care to answer?Gilneas: Grudges against the Gilneans. Apparently want their port. Humans extremely close to their home.
Stromgarde: Fight the Forsaken. Enemies of the Horde.
Thats what happens when you kill people
/whispers in a light tone, as if talking to a child
when people die, they can't fight anymore.Hey, you're doing that troll thing again...
As for Garithos... Again, they only thing we know he did was take back Dalaran and help take back the Capital city. We know the Forsaken killed two dreadlords, detroyed the army of the third, constantly fight the Scourge even today, and tidied up the Capital City to make it livable again.
I won't defend Garithos, I am defending the troops serving him who were also mudered because Sylvanas is a lying tool.Then from that vein, the Forsaken that serve Sylvanas that Varian wants to murder should also be defended. That's my job.
I just want Sylvanas' carrass to hang in a reclaimed Lordaeron as a symbol of the Alliance fighting back.But it won't.
And fighting back inplies defense, not offense.
Post by
Skreeran
Also, again... This is a JAINA thread. Take it to the Varian thread.
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