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Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!
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Post by
Squishalot
How much damage does Seal of Righteousness do?
Compare that to how much Seal of Command or Seal of Vengeance does?
I'd rather spend the point into Seal of Command, and free up an extra 4 points to spend on the Ret tree than to spend 5 points on Seals of the Pure just for the 15% damage in Seal of Righteousness.
PvE: 5 points in SotP, use Seal of Vengeance.
PvP: 1 point in SoC, spend the rest on Ret talents such as Pursuit of Justice, Crusade, etc.
Post by
303622
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303622
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436820
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Post by
Squishalot
i havent have the time to go try out the dmg due to bz at work but according to most / all the forum poster they claim after a testing, SoR seem to be giving out more burst than SoC.
Not sure abt the reliability of the info though.
will check it out before i really spec into prot.
Ok, here are some numbers. Suppose you have 4000 AP and 1500 Stamina. This gives you 450 SP.
SoR will do 2.5 * (4000 * 0.022 + 450 * 0.044) = 2.5 * (88 + 20) = 270 damage per proc.
A Titansteel Bonecrusher does average 359 damage per attack. 4000AP increases DPS by 286, which increases damage to 286 * 2.5 + 359 = 1074. Procs of 36% weapon damage = 387 damage per proc.
Judgement (Righteousnes) = 1 + 4000 * 0.2 + 450 * 0.32 = 945 damage
Judgement (Command) = 1074 * 0.19 + 4000 * 0.08 + 450 * 0.13 = 204 + 320 + 59 = 583 damage
So you lose out on damage from the Judgement, but make a lot back from the Seal. Now, let's compare hits:
Over 18 seconds:
Melee: 7 hits
Judgement: 2 hits
Hammer of the Righteous: 3 hits
Righteousness
Seal Damage: 10 * 270 = 2700
Judgement Damage: 2 * 945 = 1890
Total: 4590 damage
Command
Seal Damage: 10 * 387 = 3870
Judgement Damage: 2 * 583 = 1166
Total: 5036 damage
Now, let's compare talents. You would need to spend 5 points on Seals of the Pure to improve SoR from 4590 to
5279 damage
(15%).
1 point goes into Seal of Command. You can spend the remaining points on Sanctity of Battle and Crusade for 2% Crit and 6% extra damage.
6% extra damage brings the seal/judgement from 5036 to 5338 on its own, meaning that Seal of Command with 3 points in Crusade is better than Seal of Righteousness with 5 points in Seals of the Pure. The fact that Crusade applies to ShoR and HotR and melee and every other skill is just gravy on top.
If you're concerned about the size of your Judgement damage (because that's where the difference is most obvious), then stick your points into SoV, get your 5 stacks on in the first 10 seconds.
Edit:
One more reason to use Seal of Command in PvP:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41094
Post by
303622
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Post by
DrvUMad
After a weeks hiatus from the game I came back to the 3.2's release. Yay....sorta!
Here is my current PvP build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZEGzhMuMusIufdVf0dbc:LRz
Take a look and critique please! Also, take note of my Glyph choices.
Here are my thoughts on Glyph choices (I don't use the fancy spreadsheets some of you have so bear with my logic):
Glyph of Judgement
- Based on my earlier tests Judgement with SoB/M only managed 4%-5% of total damage done (SoComm is considerably less). Just like you were taught in school zero times anything is still zero. Following that logic, 10% more of nothing is still nothing.
Glyph of Exorcism
- Last patch Exo accounted for 7-8% of my damage done on dummy tests with no cast time. I haven't yet spent time with recount at a dummy to test my rotation with the new 1.5s cast time, but in theory nothing changed as I was waiting on a GCD for 1.5 anyway right? So a 20% increase in Exo would give us a 1.4-1.6% increase in DPS overall(ish).
Glyph of Avenger's Shield
- This is the only damage increasing Glyph I advocate. Like Judgement AS only accounts for 4-5% of our damage done however it's burst potential is much higher which is desirable in PvP. I might reconsider this for a pure PvE build but keep in mind if you are DPSing single targets this is clearly the right choice.
Glyph of Shield of Righteousness
- 80% mana reduction in our primary DPS ability with a terribly inefficient build? Ya, this is a must have for those PvPing and even those doing sub-25 man heroics not buffed to the stars.
Glyph of Seal of Command
- I haven't sat down to run the numbers on this one yet, but my gut feeling is we should be seeing more mana back from this glyph than we ever did from the SoB/M glyph. The SoB/C glyph mana return was based on the feedback damage recieved which is pitiful from a 1 hander compared to what you get back in Ret with a 2 hander. The SoC glyph isn't based off damage in any way, it's 8% of your base mana pool every 9 seconds. For me that equates to 461 mana every Judge (or net 173 mana after judge's mana cost).
My choice of seals:
As was mentioned previously by squishalot SoV/SoR probably aren't your best choices.
Seal of Righteousness
- This ability Judge's for far more than the new Seal of Command, especially with the
Glyph of Seal of Righteousness
and 5 points into
Seals of the Pure
, however DPS overall is similar between the 2. So the deciding factor you must consider becomes talents as well as glyphs. 5 talents in a 3rd tree and 1 Glyph to bring this ability on par with the 1 talent Seal of Command in a tree you are already climbing. Not to mention the loss of the
Crusade
talent.
Seal of Vengeance
- does more damage over time on a target that allows for constant beating, such as Patchwerk. Unfortunately for us however, most bosses require adds to be killed off, go immune for an air/dance/heart phase (think Heigan or XT, Razorscale, etc...) all during which your stacks will drop which you then have to stack up on the adds or back up on the boss for the next phase reducing your DPS potential. I bet you'd be hard pressed to come up with a list of bosses you can just stand there and burn. There are very few in WOTLK. Like SoR listed above in order to maximize this ability you'd want to put 5 points into
Seals of the Pure
and possibly Glyph for it for the added expertise.
Seal of Command
- A shadow of it's former self, and the bastard child of SoB/M, the new Seal of Command is the best choice for switching targets frequently and laying out the DPS without being concerned whether 5 stacks of a debuff are being maintained on the target (this is especially true in Arena, as a well timed CC and your target running across the arena from you will drop your 5 stacks every time you manage to get 5 up there). SoR has more burst potential from the judgements, but at the expense of a couple Ret talents such as
Pursuit of Justice
or
Sanctity of Battle
and
Crusade
, also keep mana efficiency in mind and the
Glyph of Seal of Command
.
Post by
436820
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Post by
Squishalot
DrvUMad - my comments were from a PvP related perspective - SoC is better than SoR. SoV is still probably the seal of choice for PvE, because it's better on adds, it doesn't take that long to get 5 stacks up (about 6.4 seconds with a 1.6sec swing?), and you get the nice 200% crit, which actually increases your damage by a *lot*.
From a PvP perspective, good choices on Glyphs, since mana is the overriding concern. Glyph of Judgement isn't as bad as you think though - SoV judges for phenomenal amounts if you can get enough stacks on someone - it'd be good for Arena, possibly.
Lunchbox - it applies to melee and HotR. Shield of Righteousness never procced anything before (unfortunately). I prefer the SoC approach to mana conservation, personally, and would recommend it for PvP wholeheartedly. SoV's not much good if you can't back it up with the rest of your abilities.
Post by
130406
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Post by
Squishalot
It probably would indeed. All of the SoC damage scales with Crit. Only the Judgement portion of the SoR damage scales with Crit. But that implies that you've got enough crit to make a difference, so in a pure Prot build, they may find that SoR is better, especially since it's more 'bursty' due to the Judgement.
But for our Protribution purposes, it's hard to go past SoC.
Edit: SoR vs SoC is mainly a concern for Ret paladins, who already have all the extra damage abilities in the Ret tree, and who have spare points to spend on things like Seals of the Pure. For us, the additional damage from Crusade is much more valuable.
Post by
436820
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Post by
Squishalot
Even in PvP? The problem with modelling PvP in Excel is that you don't get the other dynamics - that people can bubble and dispel your debuff, that they can Vanish (not sure if that works anymore with the SoV debuff), they can kite you for 15 seconds.
I've never been able to keep my mana steady in PvP if I'm using Consecration.
Post by
436820
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Post by
svirve
So 3.2 is here and all the promises about picking up the spreadsheet again kinda, like, vanished, into, thin, air...
Well not really, i actually tend on picking it up but just an FYI atm for those that might be interested.
I've yet to update
Consecrating your way to ding
(shameless advertising).
I'm starting school on monday.
I have for some odd reason i cant understand became popular with friends i havn't really spent time with for like 5 years and the once i've spent time with are &*!@#ing me about never being available.
I know "blah blah f-ing blah about the oh so awesome svirve!"
Which is 100% correct, it's blah blah blah and i'm awesome (actually 150% correct since i'm 200% awesome)..
Post by
Squishalot
You're so awesome svirve, what's so odd and hard to understand about that? <3
Ok, on a more serious note, no worries, I'm finding myself hardpressed to work on it either at the moment, things in RL (work and otherwise) have picked up a lot in the last two weeks, so I'm getting a lot busier.
As and when we can...
Post by
svirve
What do you mean on a more serious note?
I cant remember the exact quote but i recall caean stop playing and just had me raid with his guild because of my awesomeness.
I will most probably maybe perhaps hope that i could possibly start with it next weekend, maybe.
But i agree, as and when we can.
Post by
DrvUMad
@Lunchbox11 - Mana is a huge issue for me in the arenas and in the BGs. Swinging against a Paladin's SS or Priests Power Word: Shield for too long can really ruin me fast. We depend on the mana return from JoW and DP. DP is dispellable and is easily lost from CC similar to how we lose SoV stacks. I get the impression my opponents are laughing at me when I attempt to DP or SoV. It's like clockwork in the arena, I pop DP, I get CC'd and they all run the other way for 15 seconds and then return. So at no point am I able to refresh DP without waiting for the C/D nor am I able to keep SoV going worth a damn.
So in short, thus far SoComm with the Glyph "is the way" for multiple highly mobile targets.
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320645
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178943
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