This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
4th war coming?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Skreeran
I take that back. Yet, the Alliance and the Horde were headed to Northrend for a common enemy, the Lich King. His forces, the Scourge, were present. Honestly, if all you horde-siders are saying, "old rivalries/hatreds should be put aside", that means the Horde as well, not just the Alliance.
TL;DR: The horde should have attacked the Scourge, not the Alliance, because that's what they were there for.
You're referring to the Icecrown incident? Yeah, I can understand how the Alliance feels that the Horde did them a great injustice.
Yeah, I would also like to remind everyone that this was after Varian declared war on the Horde. For all intents and purposes, the Alliance were their enemies here, thanks to Varian. I'm not justifying their action, but you must remember that this wasn't some crazy declaration of war on the Horde's part. Varian had already started the war.
Yeah, Garrosh is an incredible liability. Varian, he acts the way he does because:
If WoW-Thrall cannot control his own forces at the Wrathgate (
Putress and rebel Forsaken
), then how can he control his own forces later? He also allows/doesn't know about the experimentation of Alliance in The Undercity. If he doesn't know, he's a horrible leader, and if he allows it... then what does that show?
I highlighted that for a reason. Thrall had
no
idea something like that was going to happen. Whether or not Sylvannas did is another hot issue. Does Varian know what the Night Elves are doing or planning? No. Does he know what Magni or Mekkatorque has planned? No. Just because a splinter rebel group decided to act without anyone knowing doesn't make Thrall a poor leader.
By your argument the following is true: An man from England goes to an airport and blows up 1000 people from America, England, North Korea, and Iran. Because of this; President Obama is liable and a poor leader because it was America's ally that did it.
Wrong. I invite you to read why
Varian Wrynn is a fool
. You might learn something.I like this analogy. You can't expect Thrall to know eveything, especially what a Dreadlord is covering up. I'm not even sure he knows about the Dreadlord. He probably can't visit Undercity very often, simply because he has to work with the politics of Orgrimmar. (If you recall, he could barely leave to visit his long lost people in Nagrand).
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I like this analogy. You can't expect Thrall to know eveything, especially what a Dreadlord is covering up. I'm not even sure he knows about the Dreadlord. He probably can't visit Undercity very often, simply because he has to work with the politics of Orgrimmar. (If you recall, he could barely leave to visit his long lost people in Nagrand).
Now I kinda disagree, Varimathras was a political figurehead of the Undercity.
What makes me believe that Sylvanas didn't see what he was up to in time is that he probably used the same tactic as Lady Katrana Prestor did with Varian once, but much stronger.Used sorcery to conceal facts and to manipulate others.
By the way, skreeran.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Life_spans
Oh thanks...
But I doubt that Thrall knew about Varimathras, because he would never allow a demon to have anything to do with the Horde, let alone lead a faction.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rengarde
I take that back. Yet, the Alliance and the Horde were headed to Northrend for a common enemy, the Lich King. His forces, the Scourge, were present. Honestly, if all you horde-siders are saying, "old rivalries/hatreds should be put aside", that means the Horde as well, not just the Alliance.
TL;DR: The horde should have attacked the Scourge, not the Alliance, because that's what they were there for.
You're referring to the Icecrown incident? Yeah, I can understand how the Alliance feels that the Horde did them a great injustice.
Yeah, I would also like to remind everyone that this was after Varian declared war on the Horde. For all intents and purposes, the Alliance were their enemies here, thanks to Varian. I'm not justifying their action, but you must remember that this wasn't some crazy declaration of war on the Horde's part. Varian had already started the war.
I would also like to remind everyone that the original reason why the Horde and the Alliance were in Northrend was because of the Lich King. You must remember that the Lich King attacked their cities (Org and SW), which is why they invaded Northrend in the first place. The Lich King already started a war, his forces were there, and what was the Horde doing? Attacking Alliance who were fighting said Scourge.
Yeah, Garrosh is an incredible liability. Varian, he acts the way he does because:
If WoW-Thrall cannot control his own forces at the Wrathgate (
Putress and rebel Forsaken
), then how can he control his own forces later? He also allows/doesn't know about the experimentation of Alliance in The Undercity. If he doesn't know, he's a horrible leader, and if he allows it... then what does that show?
I highlighted that for a reason. Thrall had
no
idea something like that was going to happen. Whether or not Sylvannas did is another hot issue. Does Varian know what the Night Elves are doing or planning? No. Does he know what Magni or Mekkatorque has planned? No. Just because a splinter rebel group decided to act without anyone knowing doesn't make Thrall a poor leader.
Wrong. I invite you to read why
Varian Wrynn is a fool
. You might learn something.I like this analogy. You can't expect Thrall to know eveything, especially what a Dreadlord is covering up. I'm not even sure he knows about the Dreadlord. He probably can't visit Undercity very often, simply because he has to work with the politics of Orgrimmar. (If you recall, he could barely leave to visit his long lost people in Nagrand).
I'm pretty sure Thrall knew about Varimathis.
And yes Delt, Blizz doesn't give a &*!@ about lore. Hence, the "WoW-Thrall" as I happen to call him :P
But, I stand by my previous statement. A Fourd ;) War, with the current leaders and given animosity between the factions, a Fourth War is inevitable. Because Blizz refuses to replace the WoW-Thrall with the actual Lore-Thrall, tensions are going to keep growing. I believe they will use it as a push to create a WoW 2. >>
Hopefully with better graphix and all those things us gamers love. And maybe better quest lore for us lore nerds. :D
Post by
Skreeran
I take that back. Yet, the Alliance and the Horde were headed to Northrend for a common enemy, the Lich King. His forces, the Scourge, were present. Honestly, if all you horde-siders are saying, "old rivalries/hatreds should be put aside", that means the Horde as well, not just the Alliance.
TL;DR: The horde should have attacked the Scourge, not the Alliance, because that's what they were there for.
You're referring to the Icecrown incident? Yeah, I can understand how the Alliance feels that the Horde did them a great injustice.
Yeah, I would also like to remind everyone that this was after Varian declared war on the Horde. For all intents and purposes, the Alliance were their enemies here, thanks to Varian. I'm not justifying their action, but you must remember that this wasn't some crazy declaration of war on the Horde's part. Varian had already started the war.
I would also like to remind everyone that the original reason why the Horde and the Alliance were in Northrend was because of the Lich King. You must remember that the Lich King attacked their cities (Org and SW), which is why they invaded Northrend in the first place. The Lich King already started a war, his forces were there, and what was the Horde doing? Attacking Alliance who were fighting said Scourge.Like I said, I don't agree with what they did, but I think Varian's declaration of war is part of the cause. I don't thin kthey would have done that if they weren't at war.
Post by
Rengarde
Yeah, I would also like to remind everyone that this was after Varian declared war on the Horde. For all intents and purposes, the Alliance were their enemies here, thanks to Varian. I'm not justifying their action, but you must remember that this wasn't some crazy declaration of war on the Horde's part. Varian had already started the war.
I would also like to remind everyone that the original reason why the Horde and the Alliance were in Northrend was because of the Lich King. You must remember that the Lich King attacked their cities (Org and SW), which is why they invaded Northrend in the first place. The Lich King already started a war, his forces were there, and what was the Horde doing? Attacking Alliance who were fighting said Scourge.Like I said, I don't agree with what they did, but I think Varian's declaration of war is part of the cause. I don't think they would have done that if they weren't at war.
Typo fix'd. I'm OCD ><
Moving on....
Yes, Varian is hotheaded to an extent, declaring war was rash and part of the current problem, but Lore-Thrall would be able to deal with him... It doesn't help that Garrosh is going "OMFG TEENAGE NRED RAGE PWN ALLIANCE SKUM FRO TEH HORDE!1!1!" Also, the fact that WoW-Thrall doesn't remove !@#$%^&s like Garrosh, which Lore-Thrall would have done a looooong time ago, is another problem. Blizz's retcon of Thrall is also part of the problem. Blizz WANTS PvP, because without PvP, WoW wouldn't be the way it is. There's always going to be factions and animosities.
Post by
ruleofthumb
Garrosh has a hereditary right to rule the Warsong Clan. Unfortunately, hes a political liability when it comes to Thrall and his new Horde.
And don't forget Varian's own "ZOMG NERD RAGE-FEST U KILL ME FRIEND U DIE LOLOL!" tantrum after the Undercity battle.
Speaking of which; yes, Thrall knew about Varimathras' deceit...
AFTER
he took over the freaking city! Skreeran's point was that Varimathras used whatever Dreadlord abilities he had to keep the real motive behind Putress' plans with the RAS out from under the microscope. Especially those of Thrall, who would have no qualms with removing the Dreadlord from his... position.
Post by
Skreeran
Also, I have a pet theory that Thrall feels partly responsible for Grom's death, and so he has basically adopted Garrosh, and so he is giving him rather special treatment.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Really I just have to say something about Valen, someone earlier said that the Draenei leader has never lead a war; technically he's be the leader of a war torn nation for thousands of years, and yes I know most of it has been running from Archimonde and Kil'jaeden for all those years but still, he's kept the Exiles together without everything falling apart.
Also people have mentioned the Scryers springing to aid the Blood Elves and join the Mighty Horde......that's not gonna happen. The Scryers are part of the army of Shattrah and the Naaru, they belong to them and they wouldnt come back to Azeroth to assist in a meanless(to them anyways) war. After all, Illidan is gone, but the Legion still has footholds in Draenor.
One other thing, Im not sure Id trust the Blood Elves anyways, what happens if good ole Kael comes back again and ends up getting more fanatic's to join him, there goes a large portion (possibly) of the Silvermoon nation.
Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Aye, and more quests like the ones dealing with the Lich King's heart, I enjoyed all the phased flashbacks.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, I though Blood Elves follow whoever offered them the chance at more magical energy to saite their addication's.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Those would be blood elf wretched.Common Blood elves still retain some sanity.
I thought the Wretched were those that the addication had overcome and reduced them into the ghoul like state. Im talking about just the standard BElf desire for magic and energy.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Ah I see, yeah I honestly wasnt sure if the Sunwell had been restored or not heh.
Though from some of the descriptions, it sounds like its a lot of work to fight past the addication, they touched on the subject in Night of the Dragon with Valeera and how she would have fallen to Blood Elf without Rhonin.....course you gotta wonder if she actually fed off him a few times lol.
Still, we should all be honest, if there is a fourth war its more then likely going to end up be against Sargaras and whats left of the Legion/Old Gods and their servants (depending where Blizz is going with next expansions) as oppsed to Horde against Alliance. After all, other then a few skirmish's, most of the 3rd was Living vs Scourge, or Mortals vs Demons, or Pawn's vs Pawn's lol.
Post by
425343
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.