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4th war coming?
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Post by
43880
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Post by
229054
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Post by
43880
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Post by
Skreeran
Velen and Tyrande yes, but likely Velen will not support the Alliance in this decision, nor will Jaina. Cairne certainly has more experience than Magni.
And Thrall has Saurfang as a general.
Sooo...
Post by
Supremacy
What I kind of don't understand is how anyone is actually trying to make a claim that if an actual war broke out between the Horde and the Alliance, either faction on either side wouldn't support their allegiances. Especially people saying that the Draenei would not join a fight against orcs.
...the Draenei do not like the orcs. Probably more than any other race in this game, come to think of it.
Anyway, I mean, Magni, Varian, Thrall, Cairne...I don't see any of them going "Yes, you're my partners, but, you know, I don't agree with this, so there." Even if they were actually that selfish - which I doubt - it's not a good tactical decision to just stand by while enemies who you've fought in the past start fighting with your friends now. I mean, really, let's say Stormwind falls (again). Do you really think that Magni, for example, is just going to be "Oh, well, glad it's not me"?
Also, I get the feeling that if Malfurion did come back for this war (hypotheticals, people), he'd probably be on the same side as Tyrande. And probably more than a little upset at those people who killed Cenarius.
But, yeah. I'm just saying, you can't really dismiss any faction in a knock down conflict. That's like saying "Okay, the Horde wages war, except for Saurfang. He stays at home and relaxes."
Post by
Patty
...the Draenei do not like the orcs. Probably more than any other race in this game, come to think of it.
They do not dislike the Orcs, they wish to redeem the Orcs for the deeds they committed to the Draenei under Demonic Influence. The Draenei know what this is like, having seen most of their eredar brethren turned into demons, and show empathy to them.
Anyway, I mean, Magni, Varian, Thrall, Cairne...I don't see any of them going "Yes, you're my partners, but, you know, I don't agree with this, so there." I mean, really, let's say Stormwind falls (again). Do you really think that Magni, for example, is just going to be "Oh, well, glad it's not me"?
No, but Ironforge seems more concerned about the Lich King than Stormwind at the moment, because Magni's own brother has just been found safe and alive when he was believed to be dead for a few years. Varian is consumed by hatred for the Horde he doesn't seem to see what going to war with them will do for the Alliance, more harm than good, in terms of casualties and likelihood of being crippled by defeat.
Also, I get the feeling that if Malfurion did come back for this war (hypotheticals, people), he'd probably be on the same side as Tyrande. And probably more than a little upset at those people who killed Cenarius.
Malfurion knew what the Orcs had done when he was awoken to defend Mount Hyjal from the Burning Legion and fought alongside them. I think him and Tyrande would tell Varian to calm down and deal with the problems in front of them first.
Edit: Forgot the Gnomes. They are busy trying to retake Gnomeregan, and developing technology to fight the Lich King, they would likely take a stance similar to Ironforge or the Night Elves.
Post by
275081
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Post by
ruleofthumb
A fourth war would be pointless. Azeroth has other issues to deal with;
An'qiraj and C'thun
Burning Legion
(Until Sargeras makes a move)
Stormrage/Sunstrider/Vashj
Malygos' war against the mortals
The Lich King and his undead Scourge
Yogg-Saron's break from imprisonment
The Emerald Nightmare
Naz'jatar and the Maelstrom (Possibly another old god)
These are some issues that should be dealt with before the orcs and humans settle their little squabble.
As for who would win? Good question. Game-wise, claad is right; Blizzard will never let anyone "win the war". Because of this, they may have more skirmishes and battles, but eventually come to realize that its pointless. Jaina will intervene with her "Can't we all just get along?" outlook and knock some sense into the Alliance and Horde.
And if there was another full-out war, I doubt Velen and Mekkatorque would involve their people. They have other, more pressing concerns.
Sylvannas probably won't involve her people either, due to her not giving a s**t about anyone else besides the Forsaken. Bloodhoof may or may not involve his people; after these long years, I'm sure he wants some peace and quiet.
Post by
275081
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Scrawny
Ahem 4rd? just wtf its 4th maybe this would happen well most probably because Varian HATES loathes well he cant stand Orcs as they murdered his father (Garona Halforcen) and the rest of the alliance leaders are just basically Yes-men but i think that some of them frown upon Varians brash attitude
wtf punctuation? Jerk.
Post by
Rengarde
A fourth war would be pointless. Azeroth has other issues to deal with;
An'qiraj and C'thun
Burning Legion
(Until Sargeras makes a move)
Stormrage/Sunstrider/Vashj
Malygos' war against the mortals
The Lich King and his undead Scourge
Yogg-Saron's break from imprisonment
The Emerald Nightmare
maybe an Old God
Naz'jatar and the Maelstrom (
Highly likely
another old god)
Fix'd. We're gonna see Azshara if Naz'jatar is released. And Azshara's life was perserved by the Old Gods (stated on
wowwiki
, hinted at in WotA third book). Thus, if we follow the path of WotLK, we'll be having another Old God.
Also, the Emerald Nightmare has been hinted at being caused by the Old Gods, or Hakkar the Blood God, who is believed to be an Old God/son of an Old God. And technically Ol' Yoggy has been defeated by a "group of unknown mercenaries" :P
But, yes, a fourth war is pointless, but in Varian's eyes, completely warranted. If your people are being killed, while
under a truce,
with a larger enemy present, (Broken Front) and you are attacked in a meeting in a neutral city by an ambassador AND high ranked member of the Horde (Garrosh) with little provocation if any at all, I'd call it warranted. It's no good to ignore a threat that has caused casualties to your side, especially if they are supposedly your "allies". The Fourth War, with the new leaders, is bound to come, but, as stated before, is likely to never finish in the WoW universe.... maybe lore, but not WoW.
I personally perceive the Fourth War as a war that is inevitable. Given the volatile animosity of the factions towards each other in general, and throw the new leaders into the mix (Garrosh and Varian), the Fourth War is going to happen, and soon. War is always inevitable, if you care to look at it.
Hell, Blizz could even use the Fourth War to make WoW 2. Similiar to how they made WoW. :P
Post by
165617
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Post by
ruleofthumb
But, yes, a fourth war is pointless, but in Varian's eyes, completely warranted. If your people are being killed, while
under a truce,
with a larger enemy present, (Broken Front) and you are attacked in a meeting in a neutral city by an ambassador AND high ranked member of the Horde (Garrosh) with little provocation if any at all, I'd call it warranted.
Don't make Varian seem like the victim here. He was just as to fault for the quarrel with Garrosh in Dalaran. Varian flipped out the second Thrall and Garrosh walked into the room, without them even saying a word! Varian and Garrosh are both liabilities when it comes to the Horde and Alliance. Niether of them should have the power they possess. Both of them are too volatile to be in such a seat.
And the 'truce' was between Thrall and Jaina. NOT between Thrall and Varian. I don't remember a moment where Varian would even consider opening relations with Thrall. The Alliance assault the Horde just as often as the Horde assault the Alliance. Yes, the Horde did commit a cheap flank of the Alliance in Icecrown, but this is war. Did you watch the Wrathgate scene? What happened? Did the Alliance attack the Horde? No. Visa-versa? No. They worked together. Did both of them have ample opporitunity to do so? Yes.
Good catch on the Emeral Dream Old God. I couldn't remember if the Nightmare had an Old God hand in it or not.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Eveko
Forsaken could use some deadly plague to kill all humans in stormwind.
It should be easy to spread since forsaken have the excelent
deathstalker's.
Then the orcs will have a nice fight with the dwarves.
And blood elves would have a nice Arcane vs Druidic magic
And Dranei will be spared for goat milk.
I wrote this for fun. But yeah both sides have a equal chance to win
Post by
Rengarde
Did you watch the Wrathgate scene? What happened? Did the Alliance attack the Horde? No. Visa-versa? No. They worked together. Did both of them have ample opporitunity to do so? Yes.
I take that back. Yet, the Alliance and the Horde were headed to Northrend for a common enemy, the Lich King. His forces, the Scourge, were present. Honestly, if all you horde-siders are saying, "old rivalries/hatreds should be put aside", that means the Horde as well, not just the Alliance.
TL;DR: The horde should have attacked the Scourge, not the Alliance, because that's what they were there for.
Don't make Varian seem like the victim here. He was just as to fault for the quarrel with Garrosh in Dalaran. Varian flipped out the second Thrall and Garrosh walked into the room, without them even saying a word!
V: What? What are THEY doing here?
G: I thought I smelled the blood of Alliance pigs. *draws axes*
Varian had plenty of reasons to not trust the horde (slave rings, Old Hatreds, etc). I didn't hear any insults thrown at the start by Varian. He's a bit rough when he spoke, but no insults nonetheless.
Garrosh drew his weapons in a neutral city
at Varian. Garrosh committed an act of war. Nuff said.
I don't remember a moment where Varian would even consider opening relations with Thrall.
Varian sent an ambassador (you) with Jaina to Thrall, in the Wrathgate/BftU quest chain.
Varian and Garrosh are both liabilities when it comes to the Horde and Alliance. Niether of them should have the power they possess. Both of them are too volatile to be in such a seat.
Yeah, Garrosh is an incredible liability. Varian, he acts the way he does because:
If WoW-Thrall cannot control his own forces at the Wrathgate (Putress and rebel Forsaken), then how can he control his own forces later? He also allows/doesn't know about the experimentation of Alliance in The Undercity. If he doesn't know, he's a horrible leader, and if he allows it... then what does that show?
Honestly, I wish Lore-Thrall would come back and beat a lesson into Garrosh. That punk needs his ass beaten so bad. :(
And Dranei will be spared for goat milk.
And the Tauren will be spared for milk :P
Post by
229054
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Post by
ruleofthumb
I take that back. Yet, the Alliance and the Horde were headed to Northrend for a common enemy, the Lich King. His forces, the Scourge, were present. Honestly, if all you horde-siders are saying, "old rivalries/hatreds should be put aside", that means the Horde as well, not just the Alliance.
TL;DR: The horde should have attacked the Scourge, not the Alliance, because that's what they were there for.
You're referring to the Icecrown incident? Yeah, I can understand how the Alliance feels that the Horde did them a great injustice.
V: What? What are THEY doing here?
G: I thought I smelled the blood of Alliance pigs. *draws axes*
Varian had plenty of reasons to not trust the horde (slave rings, Old Hatreds, etc). I didn't hear any insults thrown at the start by Varian. He's a bit rough when he spoke, but no insults nonetheless.
Garrosh drew his weapons in a neutral city
at Varian. Garrosh committed an act of war. Nuff said.
Yes, Garrosh drew his axe. But Varian's tone and constant demeanor to them was blatantly and purposefully disrespectful. The orcs are a proud race that doesn't tolerate such. Does that make Garrosh's acts right? No. But it doesn't make Varian the victim of orcish arrogance.
Both Varian and Thrall were victims of slavery by either's race. Yet, Thrall actually has the common sense and decency to not judge the entire human race off it. Varian has a lot to learn in maturity from Thrall, whether he likes it or not.
Varian sent an ambassador (you) with Jaina to Thrall, in the Wrathgate/BftU quest chain.
I fail to remember that. But, I've only done the Horde's side. All I see of Varian during that battle was him and his guard rushing into the Royal Quarter ready to attack Thrall and Sylvannas. There was no ambassador, there was not messenger. It was an attempted assassination of both leaders. Jaina was there to prevent something like that from happen.
Yeah, Garrosh is an incredible liability. Varian, he acts the way he does because:
If WoW-Thrall cannot control his own forces at the Wrathgate (
Putress and rebel Forsaken
), then how can he control his own forces later? He also allows/doesn't know about the experimentation of Alliance in The Undercity. If he doesn't know, he's a horrible leader, and if he allows it... then what does that show?
I highlighted that for a reason. Thrall had
no
idea something like that was going to happen. Whether or not Sylvannas did is another hot issue. Does Varian know what the Night Elves are doing or planning? No. Does he know what Magni or Mekkatorque has planned? No. Just because a splinter rebel group decided to act without anyone knowing doesn't make Thrall a poor leader.
By your argument the following is true: An man from England goes to an airport and blows up 1000 people from America, England, North Korea, and Iran. Because of this; President Obama is liable and a poor leader because it was America's ally that did it.
Wrong. I invite you to read why
Varian Wrynn is a fool
. You might learn something.
Post by
229054
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