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If There is No God... (debate)
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Post by
MyTie
,then is there a reason to live by any moral code? Are there even such things as morals? For what purpose? To whom?
If there is no God, and government were to collapse, then do YOU make the law for yourself? Who decides what is right and wrong? Is there such thing as right and wrong? If there is no wrong, and there is no right, then what reason is there to live?
Post by
ASHelmy
Yes, living a good life and being good is a purpose of it's own.
Post by
TheMediator
Do you seriously only have respect and friendship with your fellow man because you believe if you don't, some higher punishment is waiting for you? ...
Yes, of course there is a reason to live by a moral code. Everyone can enjoy much better lives if they know they can trust their fellows. It is hard to judge right and wrong absolutely, that's the whole reason there's a field dedicated to ethics - not everyone agrees what is always right or always wrong, but there are things that most agree are right and things most agree are wrong, and its up to you to decide which is which.
Finally, for the reason to live, if it were answered simply, no one would be asking the question. You just have to figure out how you want to live your life yourself and then do.
Post by
MyTie
What decides what is 'good'?
Post by
MyTie
Do you seriously only have respect and friendship with your fellow man because you believe if you don't, some higher punishment is waiting for you? ...
All I've done so far is ask questions.
Post by
ASHelmy
Here's a simple answer: If it cause harm or pain, it's bad, Unless it stops more harm/pain.
Post by
MyTie
Here's a simple answer: If it cause harm or pain, it's bad, Unless it stops more harm/pain.
Says who? Why? For what purpose? Where did you come up with this distinction? Is it arbitrary?
Post by
172996
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
You don't have to believe in God to live by a moral code.
When you say the government collapses, do you mean the entire structure that has been in place for hundreds of years? Every single governmental agency like the FBI, CIA, police, judicial, and every possible form of law enforcement? This hypothetical situation you create would never happen. Would everyone "forget" how things were and now become animals without any moral code? Like someone flipped a switch and erased people's memories?
You question is very vague on details.
But these institutions were not around before humans. They were established by humans. So, where did humans get thier moral code in order to build society? When was it decided what is right and what is wrong?
My point is, that without authority, man makes itself the authority on right and wrong. If I am the authority on right and wrong, then I can opinionate myself as always being right. Maybe I justify killing a man because the world is unjust. If no one is in authority to hold a differing opinion, then what is to say it is wrong?
Who decides right and wrong?
Post by
182246
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
172996
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Says who? Why? For what purpose? Where did you come up with this distinction? Is it arbitrary?
Do you always have to play devil's advocate?
Do you really think that people don't have a good grasp on what is good/bad or right/wrong?
Regardless of what may happen to make the current government "go away," a new one will be formed.
Instead of playing devil's advocate and asking all these questions, why not take a side and debate that. It's not really a debate if all you do is play devil's advocate and stay on the fence.
My goal is not to just argue, but to make you think. I'm asking you guys/girls difficult questions. This is a bad thing?
Both you and Kath explained how moral code is a social construct. Like you said, a new government will come up with its moral codes. Maybe human sacrifice is a jusified and accepted thing. Maybe murder is ok in others. But what made it ok? Social say? Government? People? What makes them right over me? The fact that there are more of them? So right and wrong is decided by popular opinion?
Post by
Ghoso
What decides what is 'good'?
the super ego. not "God"
Post by
172996
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Toldu
A moral code has to be determined by set of absolute standards to be identical to someone else's. The only thing that is absolute and neverchanging is God (as revealed in the King James Version of the Holy Bible). Therefore, my moral ethics are based on His teachings. If you don't have an absolute then you can't agree on a moral code. That's why some people view certain things as acceptable while others view it as wrong; they have a different moral code because their ethics aren't based on the same true rules.
Post by
MyTie
Again.....
So if all forms of government suddenly disappear, then we all "forget" everything that we knew under those forms of government?
No government =/= "I am the Law"
Morals are not forgotten.You aren't explaining WHO is the law? In that case, WHO decides right and wrong?There will never be a society where killing someone is ok.
ORLY
There will always be people that will want some form of justice. If we all suddenly grouped into smaller societies, then those societies would then create the "rules." No matter what you might say, MAJORITY RULES.So, since the majority of Nazi Germany thought the holocaust was ok, then those rules are the ones that should be followed? The oppressed minorities in society are justifiably oppressed because... MAJORITY RULES?Your goal is to make us "think" about something that is never going to happen. They happen every day, all around the world. People have to make the distinction between right and wrong. I'm asking how and why.And again... get off the fence. What is your side? I don't have a 'side'. I'm here seeking knowledge.
Post by
blademeld
Moral code is whatever you decide is right, on a personal level.
Ethics is what the majority of people in the group in reference decides is right.
God is not in the equation other than perchance a person basic their moral code on religious text.
Post by
Toldu
No government =/= "I am the Law"What about riots that break out during natural disasters where people just start breaking store windows and stealing stuff because there's no adequate police force at the time? Things like that happen and for a short time people decide their own law.
There will never be a society where killing someone is ok.What about cannibal tribes? They used to exist and still may in some areas.
Post by
TheMediator
False, humans aren't the only animals who have social structures. There are plenty of groups of animals with simple social structures. Its ignorant to assume that humans are the only animals that understand that working together can help you achieve things you might otherwise not be able to accomplish alone.
Post by
MyTie
Moral code is whatever you decide is right, on a personal level.
Bingo. This is what I was driving to. If there is no authority (God, government, or otherwise) then people make the decisions between right and wrong arbitrarily.
If that is the case, then is there even such thing as right and wrong, or is it all opinion? If it is all just opinion, can I ignore it and do whatever I feel like?
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