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An article on Varian Wrynn being right
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Post by
Morec0
He wont even have to throw it, he'll just cleave Varian in Northrend and his dismembered body will appear in Stormwind!
Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Raided SW the other night, downed him in 3 minutes, and people were defending him...not so bad-ass now. :D
Post by
Dralas
Raided SW the other night, downed him in 3 minutes, and people were defending him...not so bad-ass now. :D
"Your warchief is my other mount"
Post by
229054
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Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I started it by saying that Saurfang would beat Varian, another person said that Varian was hard to beat, and then someone else said that he's easy to beat. It has nothing to do with covering anything up.
And certainly, Varian's anger is justified based on his knowledge. If he were a footman or knight, his actions would be quite understandable, but as king, he's not acting in the best interests of his people. Even if the Horde if behaving horribly up in Northrend, it still costs fewer lived than an all out war throughout Azeroth. Especially when we're still trying to get the Lich King and an Old God under control.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Supremacy
And certainly, Varian's anger is justified based on his knowledge. If he were a footman or knight, his actions would be quite understandable, but as king, he's not acting in the best interests of his people.
Even if the Horde if behaving horribly up in Northrend, it still costs fewer lived than an all out war throughout Azeroth.
Especially when we're still trying to get the Lich King and an Old God under control.
Again, though, as a king, he cannot ignore any threat to the people of Stormwind. And the horrible behavior of the Horde, as he's seen it, is not strained trade relations, or being rude at dinner. It is the constant betrayal of truces and alliances when they are supposed to be working together towards a common goal.
The Alliance was at war with the Horde. A tenuous treaty was reached during the beginning of WoW. The sides were able to work together during the Burning Crusade, in Outland. But in Northrend, in his view, the Horde pretty much violated that treaty.
This is not a matter of "I'm going to arbitrarily declare war on a new ally for no reason." This is "my old enemies keep breaking our peace treaties and are directly responsible for the deaths of Alliance soldiers. This is even while we were working together to stop something that was going to destroy the world. They still attacked us."
I'll say it again. In Varian's eyes, the Horde are as much of a threat as the Scourge, or Yogg Saron. They are not that free-spirited friend that sometimes gets a little worked up. They are enemies.
It would be an act of abject ignorance for Varian to keep ignoring the truths he keeps being confronted with. Because when you're fighting something that wants to destroy the world, you can't trust your back to someone who wants to destroy you.
That
would not be acting in the best interests of Stormwind. Do not send your soldiers out to battle with "allies" that keep trying to kill them.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Supremacy
To make things easier for this debate, I suggest you say everything the Horde has done wrong during this war effort in Northrend.
BUT, they cannot include minor skirmishes (those have always existed) and what happened in Angrathar (because those who betrayed the horde and were responsible for this event were already put to death).
Were they?
Putress and Varimithras, yes.
But the larger question is whether or not the entirety of the Horde knew about this. The author of the iniitial article refereneced the most recent novel suggesting Sylvanas, at least, knew about the work of the Royal Apothecary Society.
Either Sylvanas did know about it, in which case, she's deceitful and willing to sacrifice allies (her own, such as the Horde soldiers at the Wrathgate) to further her own goals, or she didn't know about it at all.
The problem with her not knowing about it at all is that this wasn't some small splinter group working from the shadows, gathering in caves and such. This was a well established, well known, well organized body within her own kingdom. That's what's so important about this.
Because not knowing about that at all? That's not just ignorance. That is incompetence on a
staggering
level. That is just grossly unacceptable for a ruler of anything larger than a bake sale.
That's the issue, I think. Either she (and by extension, the Horde) is just openly lying, or she (and by extension, the Horde) have no idea what kind of homicidal nutjobs they have in their ranks, ready to snap at any time and take out everyone for no good reason.
In either case? You can't trust that.
"Sorry about that. Yeah, those people I employ and supervise, the people who treat me as their one true leader and liberator? Yeah, I had no idea what they were doing. Hm? Well, yes, they work out of my building. I guess I just didn't notice it. You know how it is. But, yeah. I promise that won't happen again. No, really. Scout's honor. Hm? Oh, my guy insulted then attacked another one of your guys during a diplomatic meeting? Well, yeah...yeah, I saw that. What are you talking about? I did do something about it! After he did the attack and your guy left? I told him I was disappointed in him."
You can't keep working with that guy. You just can't.
Post by
229054
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Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
It's not sylvanas who's evil, it's Varimathras. He selectively chose which parts she knew about since he was in charge of information. It's like Katrana and Bolvar. Just because Bolvar didn't know about the dire situation of things, doesn't make him evil. The only thing Sylvanas is guilty of is choosing a dreadlord as an advisor.
Post by
344679
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Post by
Skreeran
To some extent, yes. I would use a more complimentary term, like "overconfident," but yes, that's basically what I'm saying.
She made a mistake, believed too much in her ability to control a dreadlord, and she almost died because of it. Every leader in all of history has had their share of mistakes.
Post by
Patty
To some extent, yes. I would use a more complimentary term, like "overconfident," but yes, that's basically what I'm saying.
She made a mistake, believed too much in her ability to control a dreadlord, and she almost died
again
because of it. Every leader in all of history has had their share of mistakes.
Fixed :)
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
To make things easier for this debate, I suggest you say everything the Horde has done wrong during this war effort in Northrend.
BUT, they cannot include minor skirmishes (those have always existed) and what happened in Angrathar (because those who betrayed the horde and were responsible for this event were already put to death).
The broken front, that was pretty bad on the horde's part.
Double posting is considered bad on anyone's part.
And, it is the Warsong Offensive (Garrosh) that attacks at the broken front. Garrosh is a !@#$%^ bag, but it doesn't mean every orc is, or every member of the horde.
Also, Sylvanas' motives were seen as Lawful Evil, but notice the LAWFUL.
What the RAS did at Wrathgate I would not class as lawful.
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