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An article on Varian Wrynn being right
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Post by
ruleofthumb
Actually, if I remember correctly, Arthas loved Jaina, but it was unrequited. I don't exactly when it was, but she says something to the extent of turning Arthas down during the human campaign. It was before the whole Stratholme event.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Supremacy
Actually, if I remember correctly, Arthas loved Jaina, but it was unrequited. I don't exactly when it was, but she says something to the extent of turning Arthas down during the human campaign. It was before the whole Stratholme event.
The
coin
.
And I think that's more of her loving the man that Arthas was. Not just before the Lich King thing. No, good Arthas was nice and crazy long before he put on that hat.
More to the point, when talking about the Warsong conflict, or anything with orcs in general, from my understanding, Thrall's word is pretty much law. Even if the Warsong orcs didn't necessarily agree with Thrall's diplomacy, when the Warchief says "stand down", well...my understanding is that you stand down.
I know when Varian says stand down, my Alliance characters stand down. Again, because he just looks like he's waiting for a reason.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tahoma
The article is very interesting, thanks for posting it :)
As for Varian, first of all he really does think what's best for his people, he doesn't associate with the horde on a common attack so an event such as the one from the wrath gate won't happen again. Maybe he doesn't blame Thrall, the Warchief of the Horde, for what happend at the wrath gate however, it was easily noticed that Thrall doesn't have good knowledge about what the other races of the Horde are planning. So than why would Varian trust the word of a warchief. . .who clearly doesn't control the activities of his own Horde. Furthermore Varian is also assaulted and attacked (verbally or physically) by Garrosh. I believe that is the main problem with having the Alliance and the Horde work together, even if Varian were to trust Thrall himself, he cannot trust Thrall that he can provide the control over the Horde to not attack the Alliance and work in unison.
Ofc the entire result, is what Blizzard was aiming for, the result isn't something that ended up from multiple factors. The factors were made in such manner so the result will be the one Blizz was chasing after. . .namely have the Horde-Alliance hatred up once again. Wintergrasp Lake, the events @ the wrath gate, the Ally and Horde sections in Dalaran. The comic book series about Varians "journey". Garrosh. . .from the peaceful orc he was in Nagrand who didn't want to become like his father with the lust for battle. . .is now what he choose not to be while in Nagrand.
This conflict between the Horde and the Alliance couldn't be ignited with the characters of Thrall, Jaina, Bolovar, Tyrande and Cairne. Maybe it could have come from the Brozenbeard dwarves, however they are more keen on exploring and finding their ancestral ties than waging war. This conflict could have started only from Sylvanas, yet a complete betrayel of Sylvanas would have ment excluding the Forsaken (and prolly the Blood Elves also) out of the Horde, and gamewise you can't have that, so they made this betrayal by using the characters of Varimathras (a Dreadlord) and Putress. I don't remember seeing Putress pre-3.0 and as for Varimathras. . .being a dreadlord allied (or more likely slave) to another non-dreadlord says it all. All this, wasn't enough still, in general when you say Horde-Alliance conflict you say Orc-Human conflict, since these are the main races of 2 wars. You needed an Orc representative (Garrosh the son of GROM Hellscream, depicted as one of the most bloodthirsty Orcs in history) and a human repesentative (Varian - the child of a farther who was betrayed and assassinated by an Orc, the human who was a slave and a gladiator in the Orc arenas lead by one of the high councilman of the Warchief, a diplomat who was almost assassinated while trying to establish peace terms with the Horde) and now all that remained was what the two factions should fight over. . .well obviously control over Northrend and Lordaeron. And as a big tragedy, Saurfang and Bolovar are now dead, the very characters introduced first in wow, who would uphold a treaty of non-agression and an alliance you might say against the dangers of Northrend. So as you can see, none of the leaders who succeded at the Battle of Mount Hyjal aren't playing an active roll in the current story. Thrall and Jaina briefly appear but do not really act, they just stand and watch most of the time.
Post by
Skreeran
All that remained was what the two factions should fight over. . .well obviously control over Northrend and Lordaeron. And as a big tragedy, Saurfang and Bolovar are now dead, the very characters introduced first in wow, who would uphold a treaty of non-agression and an alliance you might say against the dangers of Northrend. So as you can see, none of the leaders who succeded at the Battle of Mount Hyjal aren't playing an active roll in the current story. Thrall and Jaina briefly appear but do not really act, they just stand and watch most of the time.This is the only part I didn't quite understand. You do know that Saurfang the Younger was introduced in TBC and that High Overlord Saurfang is still alive and cleaving, right?
And as far as i'm concerned, the Alliance can have Northrend all to themselves onec LK is dead if they like, but Lordaeron belongs to the people who live there (and have always lived there): The Forsaken.
Post by
Dralas
All that remained was what the two factions should fight over. . .well obviously control over Northrend and Lordaeron. And as a big tragedy, Saurfang and Bolovar are now dead, the very characters introduced first in wow, who would uphold a treaty of non-agression and an alliance you might say against the dangers of Northrend. So as you can see, none of the leaders who succeded at the Battle of Mount Hyjal aren't playing an active roll in the current story. Thrall and Jaina briefly appear but do not really act, they just stand and watch most of the time.This is the only part I didn't quite understand. You do know that Saurfang the Younger was introduced in TBC and that High Overlord Saurfang is still alive and cleaving, right?
And as far as i'm concerned, the Alliance can have Northrend all to themselves onec LK is dead if they like, but Lordaeron belongs to the people who live there (and have always lived there): The Forsaken.
You do know Lordaeron actually belongs to the human kingdom, right? The Forsaken may live there now, but it was built by humans, and originally had human living in it before the culling of strath. pretty much started the chain of events which would lead to the downfall of that kingdom.
Although the humans had to abandon it, that doesn't mean they won't want it back sooner or later.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dralas
except the forsaken are (mostly) humans from Lordaeron and hence have as much claim to it as any other human
Yes, if the forsaken had built it in their undead life, then it would completely be there's. But they didn't, so its not. They took it over and humans couldn't stop it.
Post by
Patty
They freed it from the Nathrezim, as I recall.
The Forsaken are mainly the people of Lordaeron, and deserve to keep Lordaeron theirs, in life or undeath, imo.
Post by
StrafeShade
Yea right and also if blight in Plaguelands is same as Dead scar the damage to land is irreversable ( one BE q in Eversong woods says this) so regardless of outcome of war with scourge and everybody else the plaguelands would be uninhabittable to living so feel free to live there u horde bastards :D
Post by
Skreeran
except the forsaken are (mostly) humans from Lordaeron and hence have as much claim to it as any other human
Yes, if the forsaken had built it in their undead life, then it would completely be there's. But they didn't, so its not. They took it over and humans couldn't stop it.They built it in their living life. Everyone who lived there is now dead, and many of them are now Forsaken.
You Stormwind Humans have no more claim to Lordaeron than the Orcs.
Post by
Tahoma
Tbh I had no clue there were even two Saurfangs, I thought there was just one ? Or did they introduce the 2nd in WotLK ?
And as for the battle for Northrend. . .maybe they aren't fighting so they can live there, but they are battling for strategic points in Northrend. However I do clearly remember that Varian says something like "go on warrior, and conquer Northrend in the name of the Alliance" or something like that.
However point is the personality if Varian and Garrosh, and the death of Bolovar are all made to server one idea, to bring back the hatred between the Horde and the Alliance once again, these characters and the events were specifically created with this end, they were made to fit the result. Thus I mean to say, there is no point of Varian being right or wrong since he was made so it would fit the result. The situation didn't result out of his behaviour, the behaviout resulted from the situation. Hope people can get what I mean. :)
Post by
StrafeShade
Imho only groups that have right to claim Lordaeron as "theirs" are Scarlet crusade and Forsaken, everyone else is outsider or mindless servant of that schizophrenic ^&*!@#$ called Lich King
Post by
Skreeran
Imho only groups that have right to claim Lordaeron as "theirs" are Scarlet crusade and Forsaken, everyone else is outsider or mindless servant of that schizophrenic ^&*!@#$ called Lich KingRight. Mr. King of Stormwind has no right to come claim that it belongs to the Stormwindians.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Varian is not the alliance, just a very powerful member of it
and sceneWhat is your point?
I like the Alliance in general, (Humans, Draenei and Dwarves), but I can't stand Varian. And because Varian is leading the Alliance into a war, the Alliance has to fire him or let him represent them.
Post by
Morec0
Varian's their
king,
as far as I know they can't just tell him "Look, you're screwing our nation up we need to let you go."
they'd have to openly rebel and then they'd have to fight the Stormwind army. They'd die!
Post by
85162
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Morec0
They are its original citizens, the few that are still alive.
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