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Debate: Do the ends justify the means?
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Post by
Laihendi
Oh snap.
Post by
MyTie
Well... I don't know if there is a definate correct 'yes' or 'no' answer to Skyfire's question. Let me just bring up an example:
In my human development psychology book, it describes a question you can ask teens to see how mentally mature they are:
Imagine someone you loved were dieing of an illness, and they needed medicine to survive. The only provider of the medicine is charging an extraordinary price for it. After trying to get money for the medicine every way possilbe, you find it is beyond your monetary reach. When you try talking to the medical company, they will not lower their price, or accept payments, or bargain in any way. Legally, you cannot get the medicine. Would it be justifiable for you to break into the labratory and steal the medicine?
A mentally matured person is more likely to say 'yes', while the younger a person is, the more likely they are to say: "stealing is wrong, so 'no", or something to that effect.
So, I suppose there are situations where the ends justify the means, however this is not all inclusive. Not every situation is justified. Specific examples are hard to judge though, if you accept that you are not a perfect judge of true right and wrong.
Post by
GoGoGodzilla
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
A mentally matured person is more likely to say 'yes', while the younger a person is, the more likely they are to say: "stealing is wrong, so 'no", or something to that effect.by what measure is the 'yes' choice more mature? Wouldn't it be the more mature thing to be responsible? What about the person who has the illness; should we consider their conclusion?
Generally, if you ask the same person this question each year on thier birthday, statistically, they are more likely to answer 'yes' than they were the previous year. What is actually more 'mature' or 'responsible' is open for interperetation. Some would argue that it is irresponsible to let the one you love die. As far as the person who has the illness... well... no one actually has the illness. It was a hypothetical question to ask an individual. There is no one actually sick. Am I misunderstanding your question?
Post by
GoGoGodzilla
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Well, hang on a second. I would want my kids to steal in order to gain medicine for me. My reasoning is that it is wrong to let your loved one die to uphold an unjust system of law. I would not want my kids to do the wrong thing, and in this case, stealing (I believe) would be the right thing to do. Obviously I wouldn't normally encourage my kids to steal, in this case I would help them plan the entry.
I would say it would be more hypothetically wrong to inform the sick person of the proposed theft. That would put them into a position where they would have to choose between saving themselves and compromising thier loved one's morals. I think it would help to not complicate the situation by not telling them at all.
Post by
GoGoGodzilla
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
172996
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Each person can justify things differently.This is right. Few things in life are cut and dry. What bothers me is when something is cut and dry wrong and people still try to justify it. Doing something that is wrong, and knowing it is wrong is one thing. Doing something that is wrong, and convincing yourself that it is right, that's another thing.
Post by
TheMediator
Each person can justify things differently.This is right. Few things in life are cut and dry. What bothers me is when something is cut and dry wrong and people still try to justify it. Doing something that is wrong, and knowing it is wrong is one thing. Doing something that is wrong, and convincing yourself that it is right, that's another thing.
Stealing isn't wrong, but other things are? I don't get what you are saying.
Post by
MyTie
Stealing isn't wrong, but other things are? I don't get what you are saying.
What I am saying is that most stiuations in life are not definately 'right' or definately 'wrong'. There are many grey areas. People arrive at different conclusions and I understand that, ok, I get it. What I do not understand, what I do not 'get' is when people do something very obviously terribly wrong, and somehow in thier mind think it is 'ok'. They try to justify it in thier minds as the right thing to do. Examples:
Holocaust
Michael Vick
Charles Manson
Abortion
etc
These things are quite obviously incorrect. When I see people trying to explain how they are 'ok' or even morally 'right', it sends my brain into shock. I am so horrified by seeing someone of my own species attempting justification that it invokes in me nausia. Some things are black and white 'wrong'.
Post by
TheMediator
Stealing isn't wrong, but other things are? I don't get what you are saying.
What I am saying is that most stiuations in life are not definately 'right' or definately 'wrong'. There are many grey areas. People arrive at different conclusions and I understand that, ok, I get it. What I do not understand, what I do not 'get' is when people do something very obviously terribly wrong, and somehow in thier mind think it is 'ok'. They try to justify it in thier minds as the right thing to do. Examples:
Holocaust
Michael Vick
Charles Manson
Abortion
etc
These things are quite obviously incorrect. When I see people trying to explain how they are 'ok' or even morally 'right', it sends my brain into shock. I am so horrified by seeing someone of my own species attempting justification that it invokes in me nausia. Some things are black and white 'wrong'.
In a fair and just legal system, if you allow one person to try to justify their actions, then its acceptable for everyone to be allowed to justify their actions.
Fortunately that's not how the US legal system works, if you commit a crime, then you're punishable for it.
BTW I lol'd at the abortion comment.
Post by
MyTie
Everyone should be allowed to have the opportunity to justify thier actions. Although, if you were in the situation where you had just done something awful, would you try justifying it? Would your conscious allow that? I would plead guilty. That is understandable. Everyone does something wrong sometimes. Everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes these mistakes are awful. Ok, fine. Believing in your mind that it is 'ok' is the disturbing thing, I find.
Also, laugh all you want. Abortion is wrong. Period.
Post by
TheMediator
Everyone should be allowed to have the opportunity to justify thier actions. Although, if you were in the situation where you had just done something awful, would you try justifying it? Would your conscious allow that? I would plead guilty. That is understandable. Everyone does something wrong sometimes. Everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes these mistakes are awful. Ok, fine. Believing in your mind that it is 'ok' is the disturbing thing, I find.
Also, laugh all you want. Abortion is wrong. Period.
No, I lol at the abortion comment as if it was generally agreed that abortion was wrong. Its about equivalent to lumping voting for Bush with eating babies.
Post by
MyTie
Also, laugh all you want. Abortion is wrong. Period.
No, I lol at the abortion comment as if it was generally agreed that abortion was wrong. Its about equivalent to lumping voting for Bush with eating babies.
I didn't say it was generally agreed upon that it is wrong, just that it is in fact wrong.
Edit: That it is obviously wrong. I can't help it if large sections of society are sick.
Post by
TheMediator
Also, laugh all you want. Abortion is wrong. Period.
No, I lol at the abortion comment as if it was generally agreed that abortion was wrong. Its about equivalent to lumping voting for Bush with eating babies.
I didn't say it was generally agreed upon that it is wrong, just that it is in fact wrong.
I'm going to back away slowly from this obvious flame bait.
Post by
95916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Yeah, I'm not debating abortion here. Make a new thread. I would love to have this debate
again
. I must've done it at least a hundred times now. I've heard it all.
Post by
MyTie
Actually... I think I'll make that thread... hang on.
Post by
TheMediator
Yeah, I'm not debating abortion here. Make a new thread. I would love to have this debate
again
. I must've done it at least a hundred times now. I've heard it all.
What? Abortion? I mean there's not really any debate, I'm guessing your opinion is that something that will become alive should be treated as alive, and my opinion is that something isn't alive until it has experienced life.
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