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PTR
10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Protection 3.3/4.0WIP
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Post by
Quest
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=88411
Post by
Quest
Btw I've been thinking, JotJ isn't necessary if your raid is bloated with frost dks, warrior tanks. Perhaps spare the pts for something else.
if youre 100% sure youll have it on the melee mob youre tanking, and its the full 20% slow then sure, by all means slap the points elsewhere.
Post by
Quest
PvP build added.
Need more input on PvP stuff!
Post by
Magnerz
Quest just had a quick look at your Pvp build, whilst it is pretty good, couple o things to think about. Prot pallies are obviously lacking somewhat in the dps department, granted not as much as people think but when up agaisnt high resi targets in Arena/BG's, notably healers or classes who can self heal, it is difficult to take them down.
There is also no "prot" pvp gear as such so its probably a good idea to stack up some retri orientated pvp gear for the added resi, not much use vs melee in comaprison to your defence gear but awesome vs casters, who tend to be the harder classes to kill.
This being the case i'd offer the following:
5/5 Divine Strength is a must
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20266
, increased damage from all attacks mate, extra increase on ShotR from inc BV
3/3 Redoubt
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20135
, not for the chance to block on proc (though this can handy mitigation) but for the 30% Block Value increase, this means your main damagea dealer hits harder. - In just 2 or 3 bits of ret gear and rest usual prot stuff i hit close to an 11K ShotR with Wings, LoO
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40707
and
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37872
use effect on. Just to show how important BV is for single target Dps.
Also pre-patch using SoW was almost as must as we ran oom mega quickly, DP will obviusly help this problem but with it being your ONLY self provided source of mana if you are using SoJ and JoJ you are definately going to want it being 100% undispellable. Being healed is not always a guarenteed way to keep mana up unless you play in area and can get the other team to focus you.
Oh and whilst i think about it, depending on what type of pvp you are doing, glyph of AS can be a really great source of extra burst damage, but on the flip side it does stop your "AoE silence" effect if you are lucky/well placed for bounces.
Deflection and Anticipation are obviusly great against all melee classes, anticipation more so ofc, but considering you'll have trouble convincing and melee class to try and bash your face in as opposed to hitting you from behind (where possible) you may want to consider switching from Deflection to Benediction, thus aiding the mana issues as nearly all of our spells are going to be insta cast. And all that extra avoidance won't do diddly squat vs casters who are a) our biggest issue and b) on around an equal footing for numbers in the average BG. Not knocking avoidance, it is still obviously really important, but unless you want to end up as toast for casters there are arguably better options availible.
Last thing; Holydins, shockadins and ret's alike use RF as dispell fodder (unless they are actually specced for its use-inwhich case it has an activeuse), even with Stoicism the minute you come up against a shammy/priest or any other class with dispells availible (locks+Hunters+?) you'll see our buffs disappearing fast. At a whopping 1K+ mana RF isn't something you are going to be inclined to throw back on in a fight even if it is lots of pure damage reduction when specced 3/3, it will simply eat away your mana trying to keep it up.
Sorry for the wall of textiness look of this post, but i hope it gives you something to think about maybe, feel free to swat it aside if you disagree tho' - nice thread btw =D
Post by
Quest
Some good points, esp about dodge and parry type of stuff. Its the PvE tank in me.
What do you all think of this one for
PvP
;
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGzAruRGsIufdVfM0b:jmMVz
Post by
Magnerz
Looks like a much better build to me, definately more viable than the one you previously posted (imho). Just wanted to pick your brains on Reckoning, i'd either try to fill it up as much as possible if it does prove to be good, or leave it be altogether.
I'd change only 4 points around in that last build you just posted:
- 1 out of imp RF
- 1 out of reckoning
- 2 out of SA
OR (Depending on how much you value SA - how many heals are you actually expecting to get in the average BG unless you often roll with a healer... or do arena with a healing/hybrid class)
-3 out of imp RF
-1 out for reckoning
And put them into:
- 1/5 conviction
- 3/3 crusade
So here is my suggested spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGziruMhsIufdVfMobc:jaMVzc
Changed for the Crusade 3/3 and 1/5 conviction instead of reckoning, SA and 1/3 imp RF. Also changed in 2nd Glyph from HoW to Excorcism, purely for more burst. This is probably because i like to play much more offensivly, but obv down to personal preferance, keep up the good work :)
Post by
Quest
Good deal, I think I'll add defence/offence. Thanks for the input.
Small change to your link;
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGzNruMhsIufdVfMobc:jaMVzc
I think the 2% overall mitigation (not just melee - more or less 2% more life) is worth more than the AC and -6% to a slow duration (thats a fraction of a second usually)
Post by
blademeld
Q: Is this a flag carrying build?
If so, why not take E4E?
Post by
Magnerz
A nice tweak there, definately 2% mitigation > AC+6% =D
@ Blademeld, this is more of a general prot pvp build i think, trying to break the mould of "Prot pallies in pvp are only good for flag carrying and irritating melee". If it were a flag carrying/holding build it would need to have all the avoidance talents like 5% dodge and 5% parry, Divinity and SA for extra heals and mana from them, and as you said E4E would be helpful too.
Talking of which you could suggest a FC build, but its unlikely anyone would take it, i mean who wants to
just
carry flags when you can beat in some heads aswell :))
Post by
82219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
SotP
stands for
Seals of the Pure
. Its a Holy Tree talent typically used by tanks that don't know any better. Seal of Vengeance (
SoV
) is the tanking seal, followed by Seal of Blood. This is on a Single Target basis, SoV still wins, and has the added utility of still ticking even when you're out of melee range for some reason, adding aggro. Its also, by far, the best AoE tanking seal, as it is spread/applied with Hammer of the Righteous.
Yes it stops at 5 applications. That+Judgement being more TPS/DPS than any other seal/judge as prot.
The consecration glyph is only good if you only cast consecration once in a while (mana management). Otherwise it will hurt our rotation (see the original post) because it lasts too long. If you only cast it once per trash pull then it wont matter. On bosses though it will hurt your output, unless, as I said, you only cast it once in a while due to mana issues.
If you're having mana troubles, be sure to cast Divine Plea, before you pull. We have a talent deep in out Prot tree now that means Divine Plea will be on all the time when you hit stuff. Also, Blessing of Sanctuary is what you should be using if you're not already.
Youre a bit short on Def right now, but alot of that should be made up for heroic/10man buffed. I would put on at least 10 more def though to be on the safe side.
Your sword needs an enchant
Your bracers need 40 stam
Shoulders need something
Parry generally is bad for a tank (it scales horribly vs dodge) so try not to gem for it.
Post by
82219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Boeck
1. i dont crunch numbers the way that site does you linked, but they say dont put more then 1 pt into spiritual attunement, im guessing because of the new divine plea?
2. Also i see alot of tanks use judgments of the just, i just never got it assuming it didnt work on alot of bosses and raid bosses, but something im missing out on?
3.In retiribution, while running faster is fun, does pursit of justice help us out i mean tank wise?
4. lets see last what is wrong with reckoning? may sound like a dumb question but i just thought u know more chance to attack would be you know building more threat.
So i will re read your builds that your had posted and re specc and re glyph as you recommend. Doing naxx right now off tank of course lol and just on a break so im typing this. Hope to hear from you soon man thanks
1. Yes. The math was done with a raid boss in mind, however it is still relevant for most anything as long as you time it right so it is up for the maximum amount of time. Such as the beginning of a pull.
2. It works on raid bosses and is our largest source of physical mitigation. However, as was stated above, if you *always* run raids with one of the other classes with fully talented AoE slow, it may be possible to put those points everywhere. The 4 slow talents for the 4 tanking classes do not stack.
3. It is a matter of preference mostly. It helps in fights where there is a lot of mobility required.
4. Reckoning is the least useful out of all the 'optional' threat talents. The damage from the swing is still white, so it only gains a 1.43 modifier. It does not help the main tanking seal (SoV), and even with Reckoning SoR provides less threat. If you were gearing and choose to use SoB, it may help you. Parry-haste use to be a large reason why Reckoning was never taken. Since the removal of crushing blows and the removal of parry-haste on certain bosses (like Patchwerk) it is not as large of an issue anymore.
Post by
345177
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
82219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
345177
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
We are still block tanks. Sure dodge is better, but if you block enough and you dont take a full on hit for 20k (500 blocked) and it turns into alot of 15.5k (4k blocked) you start to gain an advantage in damage taken after a long enough fight, its just a matter of how much dodge you can stack (hard to do) vs. block you can stack with str (easy to do)
Post by
Quest
Add blockcap macro (a better one)
Post by
288285
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
Versatility when you can't keep up 96969 due to movement, stuns, lag, or what have you.
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