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Weekly Debate #1.1: File Sharing
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Post by
MyTie
I can tell, right now, that you will continue to legitimize something that is quite obviously lacking in morals and legality, no matter what I or anyone else says.
And I can tell that no matter what I say, you'll either pop out some quotes from filthy rich artists, or you'll start talking about socks again. Hey, this works both ways, cool!
I have morals, you have excuses. You smell like socks, and I misquote you. Were pretty even... oh wait.... I have
this
. I win.
Edit: Chapter 10 I believe is where you want to start reading.
Post by
Slimda
Stealing is ok if...
Stealing is stealing. Is it ok if I murder you because you suck at making forum arguements? Is murder ok if... ?
May I mention that I never said that line? It was fabricated by MyTie.
Post by
MyTie
I meerly paraphrazed a sketchy arguement to support something that is legally stealing.
Post by
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Slimda
Legally, it may be stealing, depending on which country you live in.
The question you should ask yourself, however, is this. When most of the world's youth is doing it, is it right to criminalize an entire generation? Or shoud we perhaps take a peek at the law?
Post by
MyTie
Legally, it may be stealing, depending on which country you live in.
The question you should ask yourself, however, is this. When most of the world's youth is doing it, is it right to criminalize an entire generation? Or shoud we perhaps take a peek at the law?
/sigh.... Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it right. DUDE! That is a horrible horrible arguement, and thier just getting worse. Either come up with some concrete reason why it is ok to steal, or bow out.
Post by
276825
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Legally, it may be stealing, depending on which country you live in.
The question you should ask yourself, however, is this. When most of the world's youth is doing it, is it right to criminalize an entire generation? Or shoud we perhaps take a peek at the law?
Whoa there buddy, are you saying that because a lot of people do it, its right? I guess you have no problem with being murdered by me, because plenty of people in other countries commit murder.
Also, read this -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem
.
Basically, if music is considered a public good, music is going to disappear unless you force people to pay for music (and I really doubt the government is going to add a music tax).
LoL to the guy above me... no, I believe that stealing is wrong and should be illegal and should be punished because otherwise people are encouraged to steal from each other, and then people don't produce things. Same with murder, if its not illegal and punishable then people will be encouraged to kill each other for what they want.
Post by
MyTie
who are you to decide that murder
isn't
ok
ever had a family member murdered?
Post by
Slimda
Call it what you want, but when an entire generation is breaking one set of rules, there's something wrong. Should we imprison the generation, or fix the rules, hmm?
Today's system is facing it's death-sentence, it's being replaced by healthy new methods of distribution. Steam, for example, is a wonderful system of selling computer-games. iTunes, Spotify and other similar programs are all part of the culture we're creating. We're sharing what we want to hear, and people get it.
Post by
Queggy
Call it what you want, but when an entire generation is breaking one set of rules,
there's something wrong.
QFT.
Should we imprison the generation, or fix the rules, hmm?
Fix the generation. If a bunch of people start murdering are we going to fix the rules or fix the murderers?
Post by
MyTie
Call it what you want, but when an entire generation is breaking one set of rules, there's something wrong. Should we imprison the generation, or fix the rules, hmm?
Today's system is facing it's death-sentence, it's being replaced by healthy new methods of distribution. Steam, for example, is a wonderful system of selling computer-games. iTunes, Spotify and other similar programs are all part of the culture we're creating. We're sharing what we want to hear, and people get it.
1) I won't call it what I want, as you do. I will call it what it is: stealing.
2) an entire generation isn't doing it. Unfortunately many are. This doesn't legitimize it though. We should look at why kids today think it is ok, not think that it is ok because kids do it.
3) "Healthy new methods of distribution"? So, what your saying, is that the economy is going out the door and file shareing will be the way of commodity brokerage of the future? Seriously?
4) The whole 'wonderful system' that is 'createing culture', is actually damaging the music production economy on a whole. These catch phrases you use are really masking the exact opposite.
5) "We're sharing what we want to hear, and people get it." They should go get a job and pay for what they take, which is the responsible thing to do.
Post by
309832
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Truth
QFT
Post by
Slimda
3) "Healthy new methods of distribution"? So, what your saying, is that the economy is going out the door and file shareing will be the way of commodity brokerage of the future? Seriously?
What I'm saying is that the old system of distrobution is going down the can. Yes. It's ancient, and it needs to die to make way for newer technology. This is what happens in an evolving world.
4) The whole 'wonderful system' that is 'createing culture', is actually damaging the music production economy on a whole. These catch phrases you use are really masking the exact opposite.
Says who? There's tons of artists out there who're making money and such
without using conventional methods
. They put their songs on the net for free downloads, then tour around and play concerts. All the income goes straight into their pocket. Win/win in my eyes.
5) "We're sharing what we want to hear, and people get it." They should go get a job and pay for what they take, which is the responsible thing to do.
And as I've said before, I pay for the music I like, the games I like and the software I like. But I will still download stuff and then decide if it's worth buying.
Post by
MyTie
What I'm saying is that the old system of distrobution is going down the can. Yes. It's ancient, and it needs to die to make way for newer technology. This is what happens in an evolving world. They put their songs on the net for free downloads, then tour around and play concerts. All the income goes straight into their pocket. And as I've said before, I pay for the music I like, the games I like and the software I like. But I will still download stuff and then decide if it's worth buying.
The old system of buying hardware is going down the can, and there are many legitimate online sites to pay for and download music. If you pay for the music you obtain, then that isn't what we are talking about. If an artist wants to give away music, fine, but again, that isn't what we are talking about.
What we are talking about, again, is this subtle difference between what you are describing and 'file sharing'... it's the little part about not paying. That is morally, and legally wrong. Can you agree with that?
Finally, I dispise catch phrases. The are usually slathered like barbeque sauce all over a rotten slab of meat trying to hide the disgustingness of its interior. Things like "This is what happens in an evolving world", and "This is what we are doing, and people get it", and "healthy new meathods of distribution". I see right through these, so don't bother with them anymore.
Post by
Slimda
First I would like to ask a question. According to you it is not stealing if some physical manifestation is lost, right? Correct So lets take this to a different stage that is quite similiar, sheet music.
For those of you who sing, take choir, ect., you will see that on most pieces of sheet music that it says to not copy, right? Well what if you were to copy it and distribute it to your whole choir cause you didn't want to buy it. Stealing? Stealing? No. Theft? No. Copyright infringement? Yes. Is it bad? Yes. Can you compare it to downloading a song to see if it's good or not? No. Yeah but thats not the point. The point is is that most musicians that arrange choral music as such generally can BARELY make a living. here they have this beautiful talent for writing music and they can barely put food on the table and pay the bills, even without someone going out and copying their work. Should everyone have a right to be able to live off what they love? Heck, I want to get paid for playing WoW and listening to music all day.Then you have people who copy the music instead of buying it. If said musicians are barely making a living regularly, what happens when their work is mass circulated without being bought? They're absolutely ruined.Depends. What kind of stuff is the most downloaded ones? Three letters.
pop
. The popular songs, albums, games and such are the most widely downloaded objects. And with the popularity they have, there's always someone who buys their stuff. That's how it works.
Which leads us back to your arguement about filling the pockets of the rich. Copying sheet music by your definition is also justified, and your stealing from a hard working musician who now can't afford to feed his family.
Just because you can play an instrument doesn't mean you should earn enough money to support your family. My father has been a touring musician for 30 years of his life, and he barely made enough money to keep us fed. This was in the time before internet. Heck, this was before the dawn of CDs. Their albums were distributed through casettes!
Why should an artist, by law, be protected enough to make money? Why can't the public decide whether or not his music has "life's right".?
Post by
TheMediator
Slimda, how old are you? I don't know if you understand the concept that something still exists even if it doesn't have physical form. And stealing that object is still stealing.
Slimda, your last point is so stupid its not funny. People like you are the why the free rider problem exists "Oh, someone else will pay for it and they'll get money".
Learn about economics before you talk about things that relate to business. Stay in school.
Post by
Slimda
The old system of buying hardware is going down the can, and there are many legitimate online sites to pay for and download music. If you pay for the music you obtain, then that isn't what we are talking about. If an artist wants to give away music, fine, but again, that isn't what we are talking about. I've never said I didn't pay for music I enjoyed. I've merely said I've downloaded things to see if it IS any good, and then decide if it's worth spending money on.
What we are talking about, again, is this subtle difference between what you are describing and 'file sharing'... it's the little part about not paying. That is morally, and legally wrong. Can you agree with that? Morally? Depends. In your morals, it's wrong, but in my morals, it isn't. Morals are decided by the society you live in, and isn't a universal rule. Not paying for a service you use and enjoy is wrong, of course. Not paying for something despise, however, isn't wrong. Heck, if you despise it, you don't even want it at all.
Finally, I dispise catch phrases. The are usually slathered like barbeque sauce all over a rotten slab of meat trying to hide the disgustingness of its interior. Things like "This is what happens in an evolving world", and "This is what we are doing, and people get it", and "healthy new meathods of distribution". I see right through these, so don't bother with them anymore.
Whether you like it or not, the world
is
evolving, and the technology that's rising up now is a sure sign of it.
The industry will die from piracy, if they don't evolve with the world. It's that simple.
Post by
MyTie
And with the popularity they have, there's always someone who buys their stuff. That's how it works.
Ok.... you are trying to justify the massive free file downloading of copyrighted stuff by saying that "there's always someone who buys thier stuff" as if that makes the origional stealing ok. I don't understand that.
Also, this is another barbeque sauce slathered on the rotten meat example. "That's how it works". No, that ISN'T how it works. You see something that you want, that belongs to someone else, you pay for it. THAT'S how it works. Not because I said so, but because that's how our society operates under its moral and legal codes. I HATE HATE HATE catch phrases. Stop using them because I will continue pointing them out.
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