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Why is GHeal bad for Discicpline?
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Post by
328067
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Post by
240805
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Post by
razzem
Well I hear ya. Nothing like a healthy debate for some theorycrafting, right?
To be fair, there are some times where I *could* see using G.Heal, ie, the tank is at -8k. But in a raid scenario, it's almost a guarenteed overheal, sometimes by 100% because it's too slow. In a 5 man, I'd rather just use F.Heals for the DA crits. I suppose you could make a stronger case for using G.Heal in 5 mans. But remember it costs 32% base mana.
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328067
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269406
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341389
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Post by
karlusdavius
If you are sensible you will stack haste to 10% come 3.1. We need considerably less haste than a holy priest due to
Enlightenment
. This will put your flash heal at 1 second cast time. Within a two second time frame (in an ideal lag free raid) you will heal for an average 12,000 without crits.
With 10% haste you will bring your
Greater Heal
down to 2.5 second cast time. Where within that 2.5 second cast time you will heal on average 9,000 without crits.
Factor in
Divine Fury
. You bring that cast time to 2 seconds. The heal amount stays unchanged.
Post by
PrimeSonic
Lots of debate. Nice, it leads to an active forum.
Like I mentioned before, you can get by without it, but you can still make occasional use of it when you have Inner Focus up.
When Inner Focus is up, Greater Heal is the better choice over Flash Heal. Not much you can say against that. If I've got a free heal with extra crit chance, I'll use it on the biggest, most expensive heal I've got.
Yes, Flash Heal is still the bread and butter spell between Penance cooldowns and there's lots of other things to keep yourself entertained between them. But again, if you've got a single free spell to chuck around, mana cost is 0, you'd be crazy to spend it on something small (if you have the time to cast it).
This pretty much was how I always used it and might continue to use it.
~
Again, look at the Holy Talents we have to spend to reach
Inspiration
, a talent with plenty of synergy with our entire play style. Some might try to go as far as
Improved Healing
to make GHeal and Penance even more cost effective. Personally I figure that far is a matter of choice and I won't hold it against you if you do or don't take it.
Anyways, when you look at your options, 15% more Renew is nice, but it's also a mana inefficient spell for Discipline and you can sadly OOM by spamming it. So really, this part to me is a matter of personal preference and how you choose to make the most of what talents you had to take for something just a tier lower.
Post by
Aldones
You keep talking about using IF on GH if Penance is on CD...if your willing to wait a couple seconds, you can use IF
on
Penance, a much better choice in my opinion. Especially in 3.1 when you have
Glyph of Penance
and
Aspiration
working in your favor.
Post by
razzem
Penance glyphed with Aspiration talent has a 6.4second cooldown in 3.1.
Sounds like a bug. Talent and Glyph should give it both -2 seconds for a total of -4.
You should report that! :D
Post by
Xuxa
Penance glyphed with Aspiration talent has a 6.4second cooldown in 3.1.
Sounds like a bug. Talent and Glyph should give it both -2 seconds for a total of -4.
You should report that! :D
I believe one is two seconds, and the other is twenty percent. If you apply the two seconds first, then twenty percent of 8 seconds is only 1.6 reduction.
I expect this is working as intended.
Post by
razzem
Ah, well that would explain it. Sucky, :X
Post by
PrimeSonic
You keep talking about using IF on GH if Penance is on CD...if your willing to wait a couple seconds, you can use IF
on
Penance, a much better choice in my opinion. Especially in 3.1 when you have
Glyph of Penance
and
Aspiration
working in your favor.
I can think of many situations where using Inner Focus on Penance would be a waste.
You shouldn't be wasting Penance on dps if you can help it, so a quick GHeal could go their way and reserve the incoming Penance for the tank.
Sometimes a big Prayer of Healing is needed and with it's mana heavy cost, you'll want to have your Inner Focus saved.
Penance is already pretty mana efficient so using up your Inner Focus cooldown on it seems like a poor decision. I tend to save it for use on the mana intensive and infrequent but situationally critical heals.
Post by
Ethix
Interesting topic...
However, I don't see the point to even consider talking about being mana efficient as disc, when right there disc has essentially infinite mana (with some gear I suppose). With raid buffs and my disc gear on, I get up to around 26k mana-- I have no qualms using gheal over flash heal.
Both of the spells have there niche, and when your raid is underhealing an instance-- using gheal gets bigger numbers out with less time spent casting.
This however will become pretty null and void come 3.1, when we get improved flash heal. By that time, gheal is useless imo. Also, penance is arguably the best healing spell in the game, so it should always be on cooldown. ;)
Post by
Patty
~
Again, look at the Holy Talents we have to spend to reach
Inspiration
, a talent with plenty of synergy with our entire play style. Some might try to go as far as
Improved Healing
to make GHeal and Penance even more cost effective. Personally I figure that far is a matter of choice and I won't hold it against you if you do or don't take it.
Imo that argument is moot, because every priest has to spend atleast 14 points in discipline to get IF + Meditation which are main regen tools, which gives nice synergy to every priest and their mana pool.
Post by
Aldones
Imo that argument is moot, because every priest has to spend atleast 14 points in discipline to get IF + Meditation which are main regen tools, which gives nice synergy to every priest and their mana pool.
I've seen way to many priests that skip IF b/c they consider it a waste of a talent...I don't care if your disc, holy, shadow, or some hybrid...IF works wonders for you.
Post by
Patty
Which is why I said IF + Meditation, which both give brilliant synergy to the class.
Post by
328067
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Post by
karlusdavius
3.1 is close tho. And usually its a good idea to look at both points. Personally i have my 7 and 8 keybinds set to penance
7 = penance
8 = penance macro with IF
If your good enough, your tank should never, ever get down to a stage where penance or flash heal wont be able 2 top them off. therefor flash heal is your best route to go. In scenarios where your tank just dropped to the point of you !@#$ting your pants, the ideal route would be to shield against incoming damage that would kill him otherwise, follow up with a quick penance (IF active it you have 2 buttons like me) then flash heal him up. He should be at max.
The main reason i don't use greater heal is becuase i dont like the time frame. I have 10% haste. 1 second flash heal is very, very good at getting heals in quicker on every occasion. The only time, and i mean the ONLY time i would use greater heal, is if i know my tank will be taking 10k hits very soon for a period of time. That being said, in that scenario, i use Power Infusion, bringing greater heal down to around 1.3/1.4 seconds in cast time. Much better. But thats it. other than that, i just dont see myself needed to heal 8k that frequently.
Post by
Samanosuke
In most cases, a Gheal will never be fully effective.
Flash Heal on the other hand, heals for about
half
in
half
the amount of time, for
half
the amount of mana.
It provides a more timely heal and gives the priest flexibility in their rotation.
If someone's HP is dropping like a rock....
After flash Heal #1 on the Tank, you can simply throw a shield at the member, then pick up Flash Heal #2 on the tank again.
Compare this to either stopcasting to heal that same member. (Heals on tank canceled)
Waiting until the Gheal is finished
Or healing the member first, then casting a Gheal (major lag in incoming heals for the Tank).
Also, 2x Flash Heal provides more inspiration procs over Gheal.
Also, the
5 point talent
investment needed to make Gheal usable is a bit steep.
Considering the fact that I use 2X flash heal in place of Gheal, I'd much rather take 3/3 Improved Renew and 2/3 Spell Warding or a flat 5/5 Spell Warding.
I'd like to see 2 things....
1) Show me a combat report using Greater Heal as your main heal, and show me the overhealing done.
2)Show me a combat report using Flash Heal as your main heal, and show me the overhealing done.
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