This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Deathwing, Twilight Dragonflight and the Old Gods
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Arikan
I'm still in denial about Deathwing being in Grim Batol. I always thought it would be awesome for Deathwing to be at his old lair in Outland. It would be in its original location, except instead of an island out in the sea it would be an island floating out in the Twisting Nether away from Hellfire Peninsula. Turalyon and Alleria would be there heading a new faction, similar to SSO on Quel'Danas.
The whole island is essentially just a massive floating fortress of evil Black Dragonflight awesomeness. Plus it would be a good way to have us go back and visit ye olde Outlande one last time. I still want this to happen, and have deluded myself to thinking it will though I now know it never will thanks to Deathwing moving back to the Wetlands.
Boo on you Blizzard.
Post by
Gnub
I'm still in denial about Deathwing being in Grim Batol. I always thought it would be awesome for Deathwing to be at his old lair in Outland. It would be in its original location, except instead of an island out in the sea it would be an island floating out in the Twisting Nether away from Hellfire Peninsula. Turalyon and Alleria would be there heading a new faction, similar to SSO on Quel'Danas.
Actually, we only know that Deathwing was present in Grim Batol at the end of "Night of the Dragon", where he continued the work with the Twilight Dragonflight. These are now present in the Obsidian Sanctum in the Chamber of Aspects, so some time have obviously passed.
As such, we don't
really
know where Deathwing is, at this current moment. By that, I mean the point of time where we are now, where Sartharion (and every other raidboss) is defeated. It feels a bit strange that he just let it happen.
Post by
341273
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Arikan
Actually, we only know that Deathwing was present in Grim Batol at the end of "Night of the Dragon", where he continued the work with the Twilight Dragonflight. These are now present in the Obsidian Sanctum in the Chamber of Aspects, so some time have obviously passed.
As such, we don't
really
know where Deathwing is, at this current moment. By that, I mean the point of time where we are now, where Sartharion (and every other raidboss) is defeated. It feels a bit strange that he just let it happen.
Hope prevails! Floating island of Black Dragon Awesomness!
Post by
Gnub
Hope prevails! Floating island of Black Dragon Awesomness!
Indeed :)
Seeing a questhub or something of the like in Grim Batol would be pretty awesome though. Could integrate some means of transportation between there and "Black Dragonflight Island" (after a chain of quests), to make it even better.
A phased event would be even more awesome, which it naturally should be.
Post by
73830
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
154720
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
187275
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
Well i didn't read your link(sry i can't stand wall of texts),but imo Archimonde...Archimonde's spirit is the one corrupting the Emerald Dream,since he died in the roots of Nordrasil.
But yeah,i think i read somewhere in the Well of Eternity books that Deathwing tried to enter the Emerald dream,but couldn't find a way to it,so yeah it could Deathwing corrupting the Emerald Dream,after he found away to enter it or something.
... You should, because it has nothing to do with the Emerald Dream, the Well of Eternity, or that matter. It's about the connections between Yogg'Saron / other Old Gods, Deathwing, The Twilight Dragonfligth - and things to come.
On another note... ArgentSun, where's that reply of yours? :)
Post by
Gnub
On another note... ArgentSun, where's that reply of yours? :)
Slacking, are we? :(
Post by
301219
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
yawgmoth
My bet is that 3.2 will be us going to Grim Batol (or somewhere) and going to Deathwing in order to bring Malygos back to life, but without all the crazy.
Post by
iamkisersoze
Looks like people just don't know what to say because you did such a good job.
This is...partially true.
I am a little busy right now, but I promise I will go into greater detail in your research and theories, and find something to pick on :)
Oh my, being blind for a few days doesn't serve me too well it seems. I'd love to see what you got in mind Argent, constructive feedback/criticism is the best there is! Have at it! :)
Now, just to make sure I am not misunderstanding you - write a sentence or two summarizing the whole point you are trying to make. Because there are a few pretty bold claims up there, and I want to be sure that I am identifying the right one as your main.
Actually, I'm not quite sure there's a real borderline point in it, other than we'll surely be seeing Deathwing soon, and get content in Grim Batol.
Basically, it's based on the fact the huge amount of similarities between Yogg'Saron's general feel, and what we're heard about Deathwing (which has recently gotten his storyline "renewed" with "Night of the Dragon", the connection to Sartharion and the apperance of the characters from the novels).
While everyone knows that Deathwing was originally corrupted by the Old Gods, it was never really certain "who" did it, but it hints to the fact that it was indeed Yogg'Saron who started it all, which in the end caused the demise of Malygos.
... and, lastly, my favorite: Deathwing creates The Twilight Dragonflight. The Old Gods worshippers are... Twilight's Hammer.
I thought that the dragons were named by the Priest in the book because of the way they looked in color not because of any possible affiliation with the old gods. I think this was just more of a coincidence.
Post by
Meltdown547
I was reading through this and I just wanted to add one point that seems to have been missed.
At the end of the War of the Ancients, Deathwing is more or less soley responsible for the prevention of the Old Gods from entering Azeroth, granted, he did it out of a maddening need for the Demon Soul that they were using to open their prison, but the fact remains that they had pushed their hand a bit too far, and made him too insane to manipulate, atleast at that time.
Things may have changed after the last 10,000 years since the war, and they may regained control over him, but he could be working completely by himself and after his own goals since then.
Post by
Gnub
I thought that the dragons were named by the Priest in the book because of the way they looked in color not because of any possible affiliation with the old gods. I think this was just more of a coincidence.
Correct, it most likely is a coincidence, but that doesn't stop it from being a rather curious one at that. It's hardly what I rely my theory on, more of a "that's another slight hint"-thing.
At the end of the War of the Ancients, Deathwing is more or less soley responsible for the prevention of the Old Gods from entering Azeroth, granted, he did it out of a maddening need for the Demon Soul that they were using to open their prison, but the fact remains that they had pushed their hand a bit too far, and made him too insane to manipulate, atleast at that time.
Nice spotted. Been a while (read: years) since I read the War of the Ancients, but I assume that it's basically because the corruption hadn't taken completely over at that point. It was still at the point where it all happened. I might have to read it again though, thanks for the heads up!
On another note: nice to see that this thread was moved to the new sparkly Lore-forum! :)
Post by
265279
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
Now, then...
Let's first look at your blog. One of the things that you did several times was assuming something to be true, and using this assumption as a foundation for your next claims. E.g. - the
skardyn
. I still haven't gotten my hands on the book, but a good chunk of your...second blog, I think, was based on your belief that the skardyn (Dark Iron Dwarves fled to Grim Batol, serving the Black Dragonflight there, looking a bit like covered with scales/reptilian) look related to the Old Gods, perhaps as their (in)direct servants. Simply because they have developed scales, which coincides with the general appearance of other servants of the Old Gods - naga and flamewalkers.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting connection, and something I haven't really thought about. But the reason both the Naga and the Flamewalkers look...reptilian is because their environment demands it. Living in a sea of water or flame requires you to look properly, and scales offer (from an evolutionary perspective) a really nice layer of protection, which is elastic enough to permit free movement,
and
looks cool.
You see where I am going - Grim Batol is hardly a place that requires reptilian traits. If the Old Gods were directly responsible for the transformation of the former Dark Iron Dwarves, wouldn't it make sense for them to choose something more appropriate? More rocky and tough? Just a thought...
In all fairness, I have another argument, this one supporting your thesis - Wowwiki kindly informed me that the skardyn were transformed by the evil curse placed by Modgud, who was wife of the person who summoned an Old Gods' lieutenant in the world. So, very indirectly, the Old Gods might have been responsible for the transformation of the skardyn.
---
You mention that Grim Batol was "
heavily affected by the Old Gods
"...I wouldn't say "heavily", since you only speculate that it was the OGs who were behind the whole manipulation there. Grim Batol was affected by some form of corruption. Keep in mind, Mogdud died before Thaurissan began to seek forbidden knowledge about how to summon Ragnaros. Which makes the connection between Mogdud and the Lord of Fire weaker. But that's minor detail.
---
Moving onto a different area - the race experiments done by Deathwing and Yogg-Saron/Loken, and the significance of the dwarves in both. The reason Deathwing and his last consort work with dwarves is because that's what they have at hand. Deathwing used to work with goblins, but there were none in proximity of neither Grim Batol, nor Blackrock Mountain. And Loken doesn't work only with dwarves - he plays with all kinds of ancient metallic races (i.e. not affected by the Curse of Flesh). Vrykuls, dwarves, (mechano)gnomes, giants - you name it.
---
There are a few more minor details I think you've either covered or altered slightly to make it look like Deathwing is serving Yogg-Saron directly now, but that's not important. I think your general idea is pretty nice, even if I disagree with some minor claims. Overall, it was a nice read :)
Post by
Meltdown547
I had just realized another point that should be included in this discussion.
The Black Dragonflight is present and a member of the Wrymrest Accord, shunned though they may be. I know the obvious answer is that Deathwing put them there to work directly under the other flight's noses, with Sartharion and the Twilight drakes in their chamber, but it's still worth a mention for the chance he may have come out of a general "Enemy of my Enemy" reasoning.
It's not unprecidented for Deathwing to side with a mortal race to ensure his survival (The Blackrock orcs in the second war, sending an ambassador to the Dragonmaw orcs in Shadowmoon Valley). Again, a less likely answer, but worth considering for his general affiliation.
Post by
Gnub
Now, then...
Let's first look at your blog. One of the things that you did several times was assuming something to be true, and using this assumption as a foundation for your next claims. E.g. - the
skardyn
. I still haven't gotten my hands on the book, but a good chunk of your...second blog, I think, was based on your belief that the skardyn (Dark Iron Dwarves fled to Grim Batol, serving the Black Dragonflight there, looking a bit like covered with scales/reptilian) look related to the Old Gods, perhaps as their (in)direct servants. Simply because they have developed scales, which coincides with the general appearance of other servants of the Old Gods - naga and flamewalkers.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting connection, and something I haven't really thought about. But the reason both the Naga and the Flamewalkers look...reptilian is because their environment demands it. Living in a sea of water or flame requires you to look properly, and scales offer (from an evolutionary perspective) a really nice layer of protection, which is elastic enough to permit free movement,
and
looks cool.
You see where I am going - Grim Batol is hardly a place that requires reptilian traits. If the Old Gods were directly responsible for the transformation of the former Dark Iron Dwarves, wouldn't it make sense for them to choose something more appropriate? More rocky and tough? Just a thought...
Well caught. Yes - I'm normally assuming alot to of my considerations to be true, but I rather have to with subjects that aren't much existing about. My idea about the skardyn is mostly that if they had
just
lived in the caverns of Grim Batol, they'd probably be as you described, as it would indeed be the natural way of (de-)evolving. However, the fact remains that they have gotten reptilian.
In all fairness, I have another argument, this one supporting your thesis - Wowwiki kindly informed me that the skardyn were transformed by the evil curse placed by Modgud, who was wife of the person who summoned an Old Gods' lieutenant in the world. So, very indirectly, the Old Gods might have been responsible for the transformation of the skardyn.
It was one of the things that riled me up when I first read it - it just seemed to came together too nicely to even request any theorizing. :)
You mention that Grim Batol was "
heavily affected by the Old Gods
"...I wouldn't say "heavily", since you only speculate that it was the OGs who were behind the whole manipulation there. Grim Batol was affected by some form of corruption. Keep in mind, Mogdud died before Thaurissan began to seek forbidden knowledge about how to summon Ragnaros. Which makes the connection between Mogdud and the Lord of Fire weaker. But that's minor detail.
Ah, but riddle me this: The curse was also forbidden knowledge. Also, how would it be forbidden knowledge, if they didn't already know about it? The knowledge was there all along.
Moving onto a different area - the race experiments done by Deathwing and Yogg-Saron/Loken, and the significance of the dwarves in both. The reason Deathwing and his last consort work with dwarves is because that's what they have at hand. Deathwing used to work with goblins, but there were none in proximity of neither Grim Batol, nor Blackrock Mountain. And Loken doesn't work only with dwarves - he plays with all kinds of ancient metallic races (i.e. not affected by the Curse of Flesh). Vrykuls, dwarves, (mechano)gnomes, giants - you name it.
Valid point. I might've gotten the theory off at a wrong start, but it was however the dwarf-connection that sparked it. The dwarves have always been the key-part of the Uld-instances, and they seemed to be first race converted to the Iron way. Atleast, there are the most of them, serving as the primary force.
There are a few more minor details I think you've either covered or altered slightly to make it look like Deathwing is serving Yogg-Saron directly now, but that's not important. I think your general idea is pretty nice, even if I disagree with some minor claims. Overall, it was a nice read :)
Thanks :) I doubt Deathwing is directly
serving
Yogg'Saron, but they probably have had some connection between them. Never the less, we'll see soon enough.
The Black Dragonflight is present and a member of the Wrymrest Accord, shunned though they may be. I know the obvious answer is that Deathwing put them there to work directly under the other flight's noses, with Sartharion and the Twilight drakes in their chamber, but it's still worth a mention for the chance he may have come out of a general "Enemy of my Enemy" reasoning.
It's not unprecidented for Deathwing to side with a mortal race to ensure his survival (The Blackrock orcs in the second war, sending an ambassador to the Dragonmaw orcs in Shadowmoon Valley). Again, a less likely answer, but worth considering for his general affiliation.
I doubt it has any relation to help, what so ever. The quests you get is about the Obsidian Dragonshrine - and just that. Keep in mind that the black dragonflight is the only one not taking any part in the assault against Malygos, underlining the point well enough.
Also, I wouldn't really call it "siding with him". Deathwing finds someone who can help him with what his plans are, and he either bribes them, or give them something in return that still benefits his cause. Investments, if you can say it in that way.
Post by
Gnub
Did my wall of text kill the thread completely? :O
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.