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Leather - Fury Warriors Entitled To It?
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Post by
Rubendesmet619
I always have been someone who compared al stuf realy wel.
To avoid confusion...
WE DONT WANT HIT!
Theres hit everywhere and im on a freaking 330hit atm wich is double the hitcap.
We DONT want strength, we DO want AP, period.
I dont care if you have 1200strength, if you only have 3.5k AP then your of les use then sombodywith 1000strength and 3.8k AP.
We DO need crit.
Agility=crit, wheter you like it or not but it is. Not as good as critrating indeed but crit nonetheles.
I just calculate AP, crit and hit.
I do this with keeping armor of the teeth, gems(always +16str) AND BoK into account.
If the piece of gear is better for me I'm needing it. If you have problems with that, tough luck.
No I wont need a stupid little upgrade in Nax 25-men if its only a minor upgrade for me but im in NO WAY passing on a best in slot item.
Post by
244714
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aedalas
We DONT want strength, we DO want AP, period.
I dont care if you have 1200strength, if you only have 3.5k AP then your of les use then sombodywith 1000strength and 3.8k AP.I'm not sure what class you're playing, but for a warrior str IS ap, 1 str is 2 ap in fact. The main reason str is better is because it scales with kings, so you should think of 1 str as 2.2 ap.
Post by
78077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
244714
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
vampiric161
We DONT want strength, we DO want AP, period.
I dont care if you have 1200strength, if you only have 3.5k AP then your of les use then sombodywith 1000strength and 3.8k AP.I'm not sure what class you're playing, but for a warrior str IS ap, 1 str is 2 ap in fact. The main reason str is better is because it scales with kings, so you should think of 1 str as 2.2 ap.
Ok, so let's work Kings into the equation.
Crude Discolored Battlegrips
1436 Armor (~23.9 AP)
82.5 Str (165 AP)
74 Hit Rating
43 Crit Rating (.93 crit)
Total AP - 188.9
Frost Adroit Handguards
507 Armor after factoring in Agi and Kings (~8.46 AP)
69.3 Agi (1.1088 crit)
58 Hit Rating
53 Crit Rating (1.15 crit)
174 AP
Total AP - 182.46
Total Crit - 2.2588
So taking Frost Adroit over the plate gauntlets you gain 1.3288 crit, lose 16 hit and 6.44 AP.
6 and a half AP and a small amount of hit (when over the specials cap) is hardly a comparable to almost 1 and a third crit.
Yes I am a warrior. Would I roll on these gloves next to a rogue or druid? Yes. However I wouldnt roll on a piece of leather/mail if it was a marginal upgrade for me and a better upgrade for another class. And also why lump hunters in with rogues? Rogues and feral druids cant roll on nice high agi mail. Hunters shouldn't take leather either. Right brandon12?
Post by
208929
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Post by
316250
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Post by
Gurrock
At this point in time, I don't think the question is are we, as Warrior's, entitled to roll on anything other than plate, but rather what type of person are you? When it comes down to it, in the end there's two types of people.
First there's raider type A: This is the guy/gal who doesn't really care much about anything other than being #1 on the damage charts. Even so far as #2 or #3 is unacceptable. They want to be the best and nothing will stop them from being on top, so if it means rolling on anything/everything so be it. In short, and when I say this don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's 'evil', or 'bad', or 'wrong' to be this way, but they more or less say to themselves 'Eff everyone else. That's and upgrade for me, I'm gonna roll on it, I'm going to be #1'. It's sort of the me me me syndrom. It happens in many situations, not just the one listed here in the topic.
Then there's raider type B: This is the guy/gal that takes a moment before each raid to take a gander at his/her competition loot-wise. They say to themselves 'Okay I'm pretty stacked, not the best but compared to Joeblow here and SuzieQueue, I don't really need anything here.' So when you down that boss and the phatty mclewt pops up on screen for rolling, raider type B decides that it's more of an upgrade for one of the two previously mentioned raiders rather than him/herself. In short they're content with what they have and think more about making sure the whole team has what they need rather themselves.
So it boils down to, which type are you? Do you roll without care, or do you take others into consideration? Remember neither way is really bad in a sense, it's just the way it is. I personally am type B. Granted I've been prot 99% of WotLK, but if/when I do DPS, now and in the past, I've always been one to make sure that, even though I have a right to roll on leather/mail pieces, if a feral or rogue (for leather) or hunter or shaman (for mail) need said piece(s) over me, then let 'em have it.
Post by
95537
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
244714
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aedalas
We DONT want strength, we DO want AP, period.
I dont care if you have 1200strength, if you only have 3.5k AP then your of les use then sombodywith 1000strength and 3.8k AP.I'm not sure what class you're playing, but for a warrior str IS ap, 1 str is 2 ap in fact. The main reason str is better is because it scales with kings, so you should think of 1 str as 2.2 ap.
Ok, so let's work Kings into the equation.
Crude Discolored Battlegrips
1436 Armor (~23.9 AP)
82.5 Str (165 AP)
74 Hit Rating
43 Crit Rating (.93 crit)
Total AP - 188.9
Frost Adroit Handguards
507 Armor after factoring in Agi and Kings (~8.46 AP)
69.3 Agi (1.1088 crit)
58 Hit Rating
53 Crit Rating (1.15 crit)
174 AP
Total AP - 182.46
Total Crit - 2.2588
So taking Frost Adroit over the plate gauntlets you gain 1.3288 crit, lose 16 hit and 6.44 AP.
6 and a half AP and a small amount of hit (when over the specials cap) is hardly a comparable to almost 1 and a third crit.
Yes I am a warrior. Would I roll on these gloves next to a rogue or druid? Yes. However I wouldnt roll on a piece of leather/mail if it was a marginal upgrade for me and a better upgrade for another class. And also why lump hunters in with rogues? Rogues and feral druids cant roll on nice high agi mail. Hunters shouldn't take leather either. Right brandon12?You're comparing a drop from Patchwerk in Naxx 10 to a drop from Malygos in EoE 25. You're comparing Ilvl 213 to 226. Do you really expect them to be equal? Also look at all that hit rating, we don't need that much, another example of poor itemization. Look at the leather gloves now, there is less hit and more crit which is better itemization.
Also let me requote the important bit in my post:for a warrior str IS apI don't see where you are proving me wrong.
Post by
95537
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aedalas
I understand what he is saying, at least I think I do but it's hard to tell, I find it rather difficult dumbing myself down to the level of that post. Regardless of whatever it is he is ranting on about in that semiretarded post of his, the bit I quoted is still true. Strength IS Attack Power.
Post by
78077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aedalas
You're comparing a drop from Patchwerk in Naxx 10 to a drop from Malygos in EoE 25. You're comparing Ilvl 213 to 226. Do you really expect them to be equal?
OK then...
Valorous Dreadnaught Gauntlets
168 Attack Power (AttT and Kings factored in)
42 Hit
50 Expertise
Yellow Socket
vs.
Gloves of Calculated Risk
163 Attack Power (AttT and Kings factored in)
55 Critical Strike Rating
38 Hit
43 Agility
Meaning the Plate has 5 more AP, 4 more hit, 50 more Expertise... but lose 1.2% crit and 43 Agility meaning even more crit.
And given Hit and Expertise are pretty poor stats after you're capped, that's a massive downgrade.
And thats comparing two level 213 items, a piece of Mail against what should be our "Must Have" T7.5 Gloves.Look at my post again, you'll find I mentioned excess hit being poor itemization, and the same holds true for expertise. So you found gloves with matching iLvl and almost comparable stats....grats? What is your point? Feel free to review my posts again, I never once mentioned whether I agree or disagree with warriors rolling for non-plate armor.
Seriously, what are you trying to say with this post? Is it that mail and plate items can be comparable, or even that mail can be better than plate? That was done on page one. Without looking through again I'd wager its been done on every page.
So far in this thread every reply to my posts have been implying that I've said something that I have not. Read what is written ffs, people are reading to far into what is not there and making incorrect assuptions. When I said the gloves used in the last example are not comparable because of iLvl and source I meant exactly that and nothing more. Why are all the replies trying to show that mail or leather can be better? Thats not what I said.
Post by
78077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
vampiric161
You're comparing a drop from Patchwerk in Naxx 10 to a drop from Malygos in EoE 25. You're comparing Ilvl 213 to 226. Do you really expect them to be equal? Also look at all that hit rating, we don't need that much, another example of poor itemization. Look at the leather gloves now, there is less hit and more crit which is better itemization.
Also let me requote the important bit in my post:for a warrior str IS apI don't see where you are proving me wrong.
Perhaps I took your post the wrong way then. I thought you were saying that if it doesn't have Str then it's not a warrior item like a few other people seem to have said. All I was doing was illustrating the fact that even with Kings and no other buffs the leather gloves still beat out the plate ones.
I understand what he is saying, at least I think I do but it's hard to tell, I find it rather difficult dumbing myself down to the level of that post. Regardless of whatever it is he is ranting on about in that semiretarded post of his, the bit I quoted is still true. Strength IS Attack Power.
Also kinda funny you're the one dumbing yourself down. Might wanna look up a piece of gear before you go around telling someone they're retarded when you think a 213 ilvl pair of gloves drops in a 10 man.
Post by
145032
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aedalas
There you go with the implications again Tubey, and I don't care one bit if other people think the best golves are plate rather than leather, the fact is I didn't say it. Yet you insist on quoting me suggesting I did.
Seriously, what are you trying to say with this post? Is it that mail and plate items can be comparable, or even that mail can be better than plate?
That was done on page one. Without looking through again I'd wager its been done on every page.
Yes, i'm making exactly that point. With what you said meaning that ilevel226 is obviously better than ilevel213, I sought to point out a situation where a non-plate item of 213 is STILL better than a piece of idential level plate.
Since you edited out the important bit there I put it back in and bolded it this time.Feel free to review my posts again, I never once mentioned whether I agree or disagree with warriors rolling for non-plate armor.
So why don't you either agree or disagree - thats what an opinion is, you see.Yes, I am aware of what an opinion is and I assure you I have one, however I've not mentioned it in this thread, though if I did I'm sure someone would quote me and tell me I'm wrong on some account.
Also kinda funny you're the one dumbing yourself down. Might wanna look up a piece of gear before you go around telling someone they're retarded when you think a 213 ilvl pair of gloves drops in a 10 man.Well actually, I did look them up. I just didn't spend a whole lot of time on it, feel free to
see
for yourself, but where Wowhead normally lists something like "this item only drops in heroic" it doesn't on this item, it was mentioned in a comment but I was in a bit of a hurry when I posted that. But look what you've done there with my words, I say the post is semiretarded, you say I'm calling the poster retarded. And furthermore, I made a simple mistake, the post in question is full of butchered english. Imply what you will, I still have the ability to write clearly and with near-proper grammar where the poster I quoted either lacks it or chooses to not use it. Either way, comparing a mistake to post like that is reaching a bit, try putting some effort into it next time.
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