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The parry-gib is a myth!
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Post by
235419
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Post by
262289
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Post by
Wildhorn
Parrygib is not a myth, but it is not as bad as it used to be or people are trying to make other people believe is.
Post by
164911
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Post by
Zalambar
Parrygib is not a myth
Seriously. I've yet to see anyone seriously suggest that parried attacks are a problem in 5 player instances. The concern has always been fast attacking raid bosses who are already taking off more than half of the tank's health per hit. For example guilds taking on Prince in Kara in blues as they started their BC raid progression had real problems with parried attacks, heroic runs with decent gear aren't such an issue.
Post by
186549
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235419
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Post by
wildrooster27
Dual wielding allows for more flexibility and let's face it.
....It looks badass.
That is why blood elves can be hunters. It looks BADASS!
ZOMG! YOYOYOYO!
Screw DWing right in the ass. 2h for DK = FTW
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186549
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235419
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Post by
skribs
Zetta, that is why I try to be as thorough when I discuss a topic as I can be. People say "omg u cnt dw cuz ou get parrygib dum nub l2p jeez", they make it easy to counter when you say "parry gib isn't an issue, look at this."
In the scenario you said, yes it is true that the boss will get an increased attack speed when he parries, whether it is you, another tank (i.e. Lynx in ZA, an OT splitting the cleave), or some retarded one-eyed gopher who's playing a rogue. However, in most circumstances, you will be the only player in front of the mob, and thus it is your attacks that really matter.
That having been said, there is actually not going to be a very big difference in the number of attacks between DW and 2H. Let's say you have a 2H at a 3.5 attack speed, or 1.5/2.5 OH/MH with DW. In a 20-second rotation, you will get almost 6 hits with the 2H, and you will get (assuming frost or unholy) 8 strikes in, for a total of 14 hits. With the DW, you will still get 8 strikes - but your auto-attacks are up to around 21, totalling in 29 hits. So yeah DW will still get more hits (read: opportunities to be parried), but 29/14 is a smaller ratio than 21/6, only most people forget about strikes and only look at the later.
Like has been said, though, getting parried often has results in more damage taken, and getting parrygibbed doesn't come into play until you have bosses that are already doing enough to where that one attack hitting quicker will kill you (e.g. auto-attack + strike drops you down to below the level of an auto-attack). Also, parrygib isn't the only problem with DW tanking, it requires a more specialized spec and requires you to sacrifice stats for hit/expertise (someone said "without sacrificing", but in most situations you really don't have a choice...yeah there's some hit on tank gear but not enough for me to be hit-capped with my 2H).
Now moving on to Raids, and it steps up a notch. You NEED to reach that hit cap with a combined amount of Expertise/Hit Rating regardless of your role, even DPS strives to get hit-capped so the boss doesn't dodge every single one of their attacks, neutering their DPS. For a general idea of what that's like; take any level 72ish melee class into Sholazar Basin, and start fighting things. You'll get a pretty vauge idea of what fighting a raid-boss with a major hit-deficit is like.
Actually, the hit cap is really only the threshold at which hit becomes much less valuable a stat for increasing your DPS. The way the combat table works, 1% hit and 1% crit (assuming no crit damage talents or gems) provide the same increase in DPS for a meleer. However, crit takes 1.4x the rating that hit does to get 1% on the tooltip. Therefore, hit is good. The only time reaching the hit cap is absolutely necessary is if you're CC...but we aren't CC. Where this comes into play for DW, however, is that auto-attacks (which provide the procs and the bigger damage that DW depends on) have a MUCH lower chance to hit. In order to get the benefit of that extra damage and the chances of those procs, you need more hit. But even if I wasn't hit-capped, I'd take 30 crit rating over 20 hit rating.
Post by
xyphll
wow lots of incite and info in here.
Havent seen anyone point it out yet but while DW u can use 2 of the tanking weapons giveing that 88 Def, with it u also get the added parry and hit yada yada, im hopeing all u 2-hand tanks have a capped def... what am i saying of corse u do or u wouldnt be much good in raids. Well having the extra 88 def and all the other added parry dodge hit from DW u can then ease up on gems/chants to keep that def capped but not get excisvly high where its not to much needed.also comes the 3.0.8 patch sitting at 540+ def ungemmed or chanted is going to be a joy as out IBF will feel more as it is atm, not to mention the lil added advoid u get =)
also Deathknights r advoidance tanks so even though there parrygibing a raid boss or what not there then releyign on that added advoidance there getting from 2 tanking weapons to help them advoid the extra swing from the boss.
bottom line though is that if u r a DW tank u r choseing more migidation and advoidance, then 2H with higher "burst" damage. only senerinro that the gib would truly hurt in raids r the fights with the hateful strikes. simple enough to fix that if its THAT big its causeing wipes have a 2H on u for thouse fights alone. 3 points into the talent to ups hit and damage for DW is minor for a single fight.
on a side note as i am a DW DK. i personaly dislike the slower 1H as i reley highly upon my magical damage of DoT and what not with DC as my runic dump i try not to use BS as much as possiosable as i can generaly get more damage if not the same amount from a BB which hits all the mobs instead of just 1. Unholy DW, with some frost really allows players to advoid the weapon% skills and maintain the tanking dps.
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235419
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Post by
skribs
Actually I counted wrong for some reason. Somehow I combined the 1/3 rotation with the 2/2 rotation and end up with something that would require an extra rune or 2...
All of these conversations are kind of pointless, anyway.
Not really. While some min/maxer's do the math themselves, others require it be done for them, or simply look at what other people have done. If one person spends time figuring something out and wants to share it so that many other people don't have to spend that time (or so they can build off his math, or so they can check it) then it's a conversation worth having. While you and I are both convinced that 2H > DW, other people are not convinced. There's also disparity as to how big a difference it is. Some people think that a DW tank will simply have a little less health and mitigation, and that 99% of the time it's going to be other factors at play as to whether or not you wipe than your style of weapon. Others think that a DW DK is about as viable as a DW warrior tank. I'm somewhere in the middle, where I think DW will either limit your mitigation or your threat, depending on which you focus on.
Also know that min/maxing applies to everything, not just progression 25-man raids. While a tank who is overgeared for a fight may not see much a difference, if you are right on the line between surviving the fight and getting creamed, min/maxing might be the difference between success and failure. Rearranging your spec, focusing harder on keeping your CD's up as much as possible, gemming for the proper avoidance, etc. can all make a difference. They're small differences - but they add up. DW vs. 2H is just another factor that makes a difference in tanking.
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92768
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