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Boomkin questions regarding +hit, +crit, +haste
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Post by
Mash
I am 80 now and I am at the point where I am getting some good gear. However, I am left with some difficult decisions on which gear I should choose.
I read in the boomkin post that the hit cap is 17% on raid bosses. With balance of power, I would need 13% hit. I also read that increasing +hit to the cap is the best way to increase dps. However, I do not really raid yet, so I am not too concerned about this one. What is the hitcap for heroics? What about for PvP?
My next question is what is more important +crit or +haste? Is there a formula where X haste = Y crit (as far as dps is concerned)? Or should I always take one over the other?
Thanks
Post by
162694
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mash
I'd say the wrath glyph is worthless. I think IS is the best for damage and Innervate is a good one too if you or your healers have trouble with mana.
Post by
104112
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Post by
toastmaster7727
Moonkins rely more heavily on crit chance than on haste. If you look at the moonkin talent tree, you can see alot of factors that rely on crit. Crits proc Eclipse, Nature's Grace, and the Moonkin Form mana regen. The talent Vengeance also doubles the damage you do when a balance spell crits which is more than enough reasons to stack crit instead of haste as a moonkin. Haste has very little benefits in Heroics and in pvp. It provides very little decreases in spell casting speed compared to what other classes like rogues gain from haste. Putting haste on almost all of the Northrend items is a huge mistake that I hope Blizzard will soon fix in the future.
Reguarding hit, you should always be hit capped if you plan on doing any type of PVE content. This equals out to be 10% if you spec for full hit in the balance tree. For PVP the amount of hit required is almost nothing...about 4% with no talent benefits, making Balance of Power cap you for pvp.
Link to hit info on wowwiki:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit
.
The best three raiding/PVE Glyphs would be Starfire, Insect Swarm, and Moonfire. The best three for PVP would have to be Wrath, Insect Swarm, and Entangling Roots. Personally I was hoping for a Typhoon glyph even though I hardly pvp. The best glyphs for certain player circumstances will always be controversy though.
Post by
162694
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Post by
Celdhyrean
@toastmaster : for the purpose of raiding, crit is NOT a main stat. Yes we have talents that deal with crit and help make it more usefull, but despite all those the increase in dps you get from 1 point of haste rating is always superior to the increase you get from 1 point of crit rating (unless you go OOM during the fight).
See more arguments as to this in a few other posts here (but the basic argument is that crit is more than 20% more expensive than haste in terms of item budget).
Post by
Mash
@Celdhyrean
So if it is 20% more expensive, are you saying that if I found item with +100 haste that is approx equal to something with +120 crit?
Also, some haste gear has +MP5. Is this worthless for us? I always considered this healing gear, but didn't know if the haste outweighed the MP5. For instance, I can buy this from the kirin tor
Robe of Crackling Flame
Post by
Celdhyrean
It isn't that simple as there are a number of factors that help out one or the other. While they start out equal (1% crit and 1% haste in terms of direct damage increase):
- haste allows to cast additional spells which can also crit, the faster cast time can allow you to squeeze an extra cast before silence/bubble/... (in which case you suddently get a big increase) or the bonus time you get from it get's eaten by a silence/bubble/... and you don't gain as much. (In most situations though you can still consider haste as a linear increase)
- crits allow you to cast more spells too thanks to NG (though that crit contribution to haste is much smaller than the haste rating contribution to haste) and mainly helps in terms of mana regeneration
The conversion rating difference is however the main negative factor to crit rating, big enough that it outweighs other beneficial effects.
It is difficult to compare objectively and to say haste is x% better than crit without making use of a complete spreadsheet (there are some available by the way). What you can say though is that in any realistical situation (ie you have high spellpower and both crit and haste in at least small amounts), haste > crit for pure dps and crit > haste for mana regeneration.
Since going oom soon in a fight is a very major dps decrease, you have to first handle things to not get OOM (spell rotation, consumables, gear and gems, ...) which can't really be theorysed because it depends on so many elements. That first aim being done (and it should get easier as you get better gear), you start going more for pure dps stats.
In BC, we really had big mana problems (i'm talking pre-30% intensity buff) and had them for a long amount of time (start of T5 was still somewhat difficult unless you scored a spriest), whereas in wotlk it seems that mana is going to stop being a problem quite soon (get some heroics and Nax epics and you can already spec out of some mana regen talents). This makes it easier to focus on pure dps stats faster.
Post by
Mash
Nice post.
I am in pretty good gear and dont have mana problems. I have roughly 1500 SP. I think I can start replacing +crit items with +haste items. Though, I really need to work on my hit cap, which I am far from reaching. I guess an easy way to do that is through sockets.
Post by
Maelwys
What do you guys think the minimum should be for heroics and such?
Post by
214014
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Post by
Maelwys
Should Int be prioritized above Spirit? Even with both talents, we get more regen from Spirit and more spell damage from Spirit, even with Furor (I believe).
Post by
279798
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Post by
109094
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Post by
228909
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Post by
curlymon
I have argued extensively for crit with many people here. But you CANNOT stack only crit and expect to be a good boomkin you must stack haste as well. Each one has a situation where one is better then the other but you cannot throw one out entirely in favor of the other.
Non in-depth raid order:
Hit(to cap) > Spell Power > crit/haste > Int > Spirit/mp5
Post by
sunwukung
I say the glpyh of innervate is great for moonkins. Resto druids shouldn't need 2 innervates in a fight. If your lucky enough to get to use your own innervate, thats awesome, and you will benefit more from it. Having that glyph buff on you when innervating a priest, you will benefit as well. Pallies and shamans should never be innervated.
Post by
QuestionC
I'm a moonkin bringing in about 2.2k DPS, and here's my thoughts.
First, some numbers:
Points per 1% increase (lower is better)
Haste: 32.79
Hit: 26.23
Crit: 45.91
Hit cap for heroics is 6%. 2% with Balance of Power.
Hit cap for PvP is 4%. 0% with Balance of Power.
+Hit is going to be the main stat you worry about in a raid. 1% Hit is always better than 1% Haste. 1% Hit is (usually) not as good as 1% Crit, but Crit rating is absurdly expensive.
You should always gem for +Hit rating
, using
Rigid Autumn's Glow
. If you need to fill a red slot,
Veiled Monarch Topaz
, if you need to fill a blue,
Shining Forest Emerald
. Any other gems just don't compare. +Hit Rating is too cheap compared to the other stats to pass up.
Crit is also important, because of Eclipse procs. Until you reach a certain threshold of crit (20%?) you are going to need more crit. Even past that threshold, more crit means you can drop points out of Eclipse. Beyond that, Crit is mana efficiency, and amazing for wrath spam.
Haste is.... weak. I assume it is useful at very high gear levels, but if you aren't already very well geared, then +hit and +crit are just more valuable. Haste doesn't work with NG'd wraths. Haste doesn't synergize well with NG at all. Haste has bad mana efficiency. +Crit is (IMO) better, and +Hit is unambiguously better.
Aside:
Spirit is actually a pretty nice stat. 3/3 Intensity is our primary source of mana regen.
Post by
103093
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