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Skribs' PvP DK Handbook
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Post by
Draenus
i almost had a brain freeze reading all this. Very good i have to say but overall too much for me.
My opinion is that Dual Wield is not that under-powered and weak as you described it. I'm very confident playing DW/Blood, im not 80 yet, but its been working great for me so far. At 78 in BG's i always manage to be in the top 3 at dealing damage.
I'm not really into big crits, i just like dual-wielding in general.
If u try using a 2hander
especially
with blood spec u will see a great difference, blood is a talent tree based on HS spam and strong OB hits something that makes DW very underpowered against a 2hander since HS and OB will do dmg based on your main hand base damage (far less than a 2hander). I say DW=frost PvE dps because of Killing Machine (so good in pve that almost looks like a cheat) with rune of the fallen crusader on main hand and rune of cinderglacier o a fast off-hand.
But this is a PvP thread so DW is out of of the table. In arena u need as much burst as possible and 2hander=burst so ... :P
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282496
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8285
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Post by
Plated
Hello, ty for your post Skrib I wanted to know, is
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMqcZ0xZfMGh0fkrcqMcou
unholy/blood PVP only spec any good? optionally I can mess around with
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50117/
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49789
and-or
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49480
. I wanted to add toughness cos -30%movment imparing effects seems uber? and the armor is nice too.
Post by
kindel12
Skribs, your guide was very detailed and was fully thought through. I learned so many things in your guide, I read every single word of it.
I came up with two builds after reading your guide, using your idea of balancing out survival/dps/etc
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZhg0zZfMGh0fkrcqMcoux
this is mainly unholy but goes off into the other two trees for the lower, but more useful talents. I decided not to step higher into the tree in blood for the rune tap. I feel it costs too many talent points when I could just get a little more range fr kiters in the frost tree. I am still not sure if i did the right thing there.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMRcZGgxzhxz0GoAost
this one focuses on frost, i put points into the filler TS and got the cc at the end then i put 18 in blood for rune tap. I still have 1 point left.
The unholy one is probably better, because even though the frost build has more range capabilities, unholy has bone sheild
i would like to hear feedback
thanks
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289391
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Post by
CerebralAssassin
Thanks for the in-depth analysis, Skribs.
The only addition I would like to see is a combat strategy section vs. the other classes.
Though he was mostly a pompous ass, a guy named Ming wrote an excellent breakdown for rogues in a dueling guide that detailed how to fight other classes (when/how to use abilities, what to watch out for and how to respond, combos and macros, etc.)
Just an idea. I realize that 1v1 combat is very rare, but nobody is going to stand still for you while you spam your rotations ya know.. and it should be educational to DKs who are learning the class.
Post by
jvaski
You missed
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43569
on your alchemy analysis.
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280798
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273200
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Post by
skribs
I haven't read the posts here in a while, and I should now that I got some spare time, but I did just add the proc build under the frost talents.
Post by
skribs
Okay, after reading the posts since I last posted, it seems a lot of people are complaining that I didn't show a lot of love to blood. I know blood has more survivability, and I admitted that in my original post (or one of the replies which was a continuation of it, because it was so long). However, since blood is higher in survivability, but lower in both burst damage and in mobility/control, it is not going to be up to par against the majority of the players you will come up against (those being ranged, healers, or anyone grouped with a healer).
Blood may be good in BG's, but I also stated that my talent analysis was not looking at battlegrounds, but rather arenas. In battlegrounds, AoE is more important, as is pure survivability. You're less likely to get kited, as players often dont put as much effort into BG's. The biggest thing is that battle grounds are not rated. You really shouldn't have to spec for BG's, as many people on your team will be in PvE gear/spec, afkers, or simply not trying anyway. It is in arena, however, that you want every edge, because it is your victories that allow access to gear, rather than simply time put in.
There are several reasons in the above paragraph why "X is good in BG's, I dont know why you dont like it" is an invalid statement. In most BG's, X may be good simply because the other player was half paying attention or because he's still in greens. In BG's, X may be good because there's 20 of you attacking 20 of them in pretty much a standstill AoE fest. And in BG's, you really don't get any credit beyond maybe a screenshot of your accomplishments.
Why is dual Wield under-powered for pvp? Ill tell you. In PvP you will mostly be dealing with classes that run away and kite you. Therefore you will not maintain a sustained attack on them, of which dual wield needs in order to be effective (or as effective as 2-handers) You are not a rogue and cannot stun lock people or run fast enough to make this useful at all.
Furthermore, all your strikes are based on weapon damage. Therefore you gain more damage benefit by using 2-handed weapons. Since you will be relying on strikes that do 60% weapon damage, before the player escapes from your reach, it would be silly to nerf strike damage in order to land a couple of extra white hits. DK's need heavy burst in order to be effective. Dual Wield may work when exchanging blows with rogues or warriors. But if you are specced to only be effective vs certain classes you will not be very successful at PvP. Being able to make the most out of your strikes when you can is vital against almost every class. Especially clothies that will only let you hit them maybe twice before you are CC'd.
Also - look at which classes DW in PvP. You have rogues, who can't use a 2H anyway. Shamans may, but if they do they have stormstrike - which hits with both weapons. No DK attack uses 2-weapons, and in fact there are no DK abilities beyond auto-attack (or related procs) which benefit from DW, and if your auto-attack is suffering due to low time-on-target, then there is less damage done. Warriors may DW if they have Titan's grip, but you can't say they're not using a 2H, either. I have never heard any legitimate hunter poster say they will DW, unless they're making a twink that will benefit more from 2x 1H enchants - the 2H has more stats and offers bigger jousts (wing clip + raptor strike).
Basically, those that have the option only use DW to better effect in PvP if their talents/abilities support it. Ours don't, as such we would suffer.
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Post by
Zulfon
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcE0qhhIsfMtzhoZbxMhx0o
What do you think about this? o_0
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